head gasket replacement, no start

I've ran into a no start issue once finished my head and headgasket replacement.

Initially after completing everything I fired it up and it ran for 30 or so seconds and then died. I assumed the timing was off so I played with the distributor and no matter where I set it it wouldn't start up like it just had in any form. For a few trys after the initial start It would crank fine but now it isn't cranking at all, just the audible clicking from the starter as if no voltage.
However I checked the voltage and it's still fine, around 12volts.

Things that were done, new head, supertech valvetrain, I used stock valve adjustment specs, I set the crank to TDC (white mark) and both cam gears to the Up position, the intake leaning one tooth or so to the left towards the exhaust. When I retensioned the belt everything was still basically aligned.
I've also replaced the radiator and all gaskets associated along with arp head studs.

What to look for next? battery ground and chassic to valve cover were all okay.
a/c belt might be a bit tight but I can't imagine what I'm missing at this point.

Can't check for spark/fuel if it isn't cranking by the way. so that would be the first issue.


Update 809pm: I connected jumper cables to the battery and it's turning over again, I also can smell the unburnt fuel from turning over the car now so I believe I'm getting fuel. Still have to figure out if im getting spark or not.

Make sure the spark plug wires are on the distributor in the correct order.

Muckman said:

Make sure the spark plug wires are on the distributor in the correct order.

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I double and triple checked, however I tested for spark on each cylinder and all four fired orange while cranking, I believe it's suppose to be blue/white or just not orange.
So if I have this right, that means weak spark and it could be the coil in the distributor.
I'm attempting to disassemble it to test the coil (might just take it to autozone) but I'm assuming the igniter is still good since it's still having spark.

Though I'm not sure why it would run for a little and then just give out, idk if that's normal behavior of a coil failure.

I can't figure this problem out, defiantly need help asap.

I replaced the distributor and it looks like I'm still getting orange spark through the spark plugs
I felt the fuel pump relay engage so that's good
I can feel the fuel pump also kick on and I checked the fuse
I can see the4 timing belt is intact because I checked for camshaft movement

I don't know what to do about the orange spark and I can't figure out what else is the problem.

I can crank it over for the most part with ease with a charged battery, it cranks for days, and I've unflooded the cylinders and tried again, I've gotten the chug noise as if it's about to start and heard an exhaust note on 2 separate occasions today.

Ideas? where to look next?

It doesn't sound like your cams are off, but make sure to check the inside of the two cam gears to the horizontal mark between them. The up arrows aren't always a good indicator. If they were off only a tooth, it would probably fire, but sound like crap. Just replaced the head gasket myself this week and had similar issues. Bad distributor as well. This link was posted to me, maybe it will help you out.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html

You're doing a lot of FEELING and ASSUMING.
Instead of feeling the fuel pump relay, check fuel pressure with a gauge. Lets make sure its actually moving fuel.
Who said orange spark is bad? Its not. You have spark, whether its sparking at the correct time or not is the real question.
After the cranking are the spark plugs wet with fuel? Have you replaced the spark plugs?
You dont flood modern fuel injected engines. The atomized fuel will go right out the cylinder on the exhaust stroke. It doesnt pool up in the cylinder if its not ignited.
Put a battery charger on the battery. Its drained at the very least by this point.
Instead of checking for camshaft movement make sure the timing belt is timed correctly. Crank and cams all at TDC.
Do a compression test. This will confirm that your tbelt is timmed and your cylinders have compression.

I was just about to suggest that. Do a compression test.

Nick is your spark orange? Get it checked out.

More of a pink. I like it to have a little more flare.

Muckman said:

You're doing a lot of FEELING and ASSUMING.
Instead of feeling the fuel pump relay, check fuel pressure with a gauge. Lets make sure its actually moving fuel.
Who said orange spark is bad? Its not. You have spark, whether its sparking at the correct time or not is the real question.
After the cranking are the spark plugs wet with fuel? Have you replaced the spark plugs?
You dont flood modern fuel injected engines. The atomized fuel will go right out the cylinder on the exhaust stroke. It doesnt pool up in the cylinder if its not ignited.
Put a battery charger on the battery. Its drained at the very least by this point.
Instead of checking for camshaft movement make sure the timing belt is timed correctly. Crank and cams all at TDC.
Do a compression test. This will confirm that your tbelt is timmed and your cylinders have compression.

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I read a guide on troubleshooting no start situations, well, multiple, and they all hinted at that orange shows distributor failure typically since it "should" be white with a tinge of blue, according to what I've read.

I have replaced the spark plugs about a month or two ago, hardly ran them. But after cranking, no they're not wet with fuel from the times I've pulled them, I'll ldouble check that today around 8 or 9 am when I get back to the car.

Good to know I can't flood it, I just assumed it was possible since compressing the gas pedal cleared the injectors (again, from what I've read).

But anyways tomorrow I'll rent a compression gauge and fuel pressure gauge and get back to you guys with information if it doesn't immediately yield the problem, probably will return this distributor since mine is probably fine and I'll check the timing again (though I checked this and spent much time to make sure this was right prior to putting it all back together), and I will also check to make sure the intake cam and exhaust cam are resting on the correct journals.

Sound good errybody?

oh and a little side note, I was performing feeler tests on the main relay and fuel and looking at cam shaft rotation because I didn't have your fancy gadgets for testing. Well, I have a multimeter, but I figured if they're both noticeably clicking on they're probably in work order (though I won't rule it out without your guy's say so, or till I know for sure I'm getting fuel pressure).

The only thing that can cause weak spark is the coil, cap/rotor, plug wires, spark plugs. And I think you have replaced all of them so I don't think the color of the spark is the problem. Perhaps the method you are using to test the visibility of the spark outside of the engine is causing it to be orange, such as a poor ground. At any rate I don't feel the spark color is responsible for the non start. It should be enough to ignite the mixture. The real issue is if its igniting at the correct time.

Timing timing timing.....

SO I started with timing since that seemed most feasible as the problem before I jumped to fuel or compression(and compression in this case is basically timing still). And it is off, well was off, waaaayyy off. I have no clue how it had gotten that far off but when I popped the valve cover the cams were already around tdc with the up arrows facing up. I then looked for the timing mark and didn't see it, I probably made near 180 degrees revolution on the crank before I saw the white mark again, so that much off. In addition to that, when I took the valve cover off the tension inbetween the two sprockets wasn't as I set it, it had extra belt length and was loose there.

Anyways, before I buttoned it back up I wanted to take pictures and get your thoughts to make sure I've been doing this right. FIrst here is a picture of how the camshafts are currently positioned, is this okay or do they need to be turly 100 percent parallel "UP" arrows (the first time I had the exhaust cam sprocket pointing true north and the intake sprocket pointing a tooth or so towards the exhaust sprocket [Iread that was how they should be positioned]).

(also note the slight lack of tension between the sprockets in the picture, normally or not ok?)

Second here you can see the cams positioned, this kinda goes with the last picture. Both Cylinder 4 and 1 are on no compression during this stroke and position


and the third picture you can see how i've got the crank aligned, I know I have this part right but I just wanted to show for any doubters out there.


Finally, as far as the procedure to tighten down the timing belt, I've read both turn the crank about a tooth and then retension the belt (method I initially chose) and also to just retension the belt without the turn.

So some clarification on this beat to death topic would be awesome. Thanks CI.

Your cams are off. The up is based off the head, not the sky.

Nick_C78 said:

Your cams are off. The up is based off the head, not the sky.

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So they need to face up based off the surface of the head or is there a specific reference mark I should use?

after this I'm going to go change the cam positions.

and as far as the method to retension the belt?