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NA B18C1 build

All Motor / Drivetrain



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Old 07-24-2010, 01:48 PM   #1
LS-SLOW
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Default NA B18C1 build

i drive my 99 LS integra as my daily but am not at all satisfied with the power. after some research i decided i did not want to boost it for reliability reasons so NA was the way to go. i wanted to have VTEC so i looked into LS/VTEC and it was a lot of tapping the block here and modifing this oil passage, ect. looks iffy to me.

So here's my solution....a $350 gsr motor with 200,000 miles that ran on removal with good compression and never had any mods on it. pretty good starting place.
I wanted to make as much NA power as possible and still rev to 10,000rpm so an overbore was ruled out.

So once again, here's my solution....
BOTTOM END
* LS crank (oil squirters blocked for clearance)
* LS spec brian crower H-beam rods
* arias high silicone dome pistions (12.55:1 compression with stock head)

HEAD
* extreme port and polish on intake and exhaust side
* 5 angle valve job
* blox type B tuner cam
* supertech titanium valve springs and retainers
* stainless steel black nitride coated oversized flat top valves (should put me up around 12.75:1 compres)

** all tuned by a HONDATA S300

the only bolt on i have is a high-end tri-Y header.
I NEED RECOMENDATIONS FOR:
* intake pipe
* throttle body size/ brand
* intake manifold
* fuel rail/ regulator
* fuel injectors
* engine mounts
* ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD HELP.

i'm aiming for as close to 300whp as i can get NA
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:40 PM   #2
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300whp All Motor? I've seen people with the same compression, different valve train though, with 200hp at the crank..

You're on the right track though, and your setup seems pretty good. Check out the Skunk2 intake manifolds they have a cool selection of dialmeters for all different applications.

Since compression is going to be so high, look for some better head bolts and rod bolts.
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:08 PM   #3
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i have ARP head studs and the crower rods came with high strength bolts so i'm good there.

thanks for the info on the manifold
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:42 PM   #4
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Going to need something a bit better flowing than a stock exhaust system. And a straight through muffler will flow better than a chambered.
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #5
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Good luck on aiming for a NA 300hp on a daily.

First of all 5 angle is over kill. Stock fuel rail will work but need a adjustable fuel pressure regulator and fuel gauge. I would upgrade the fuel pump. Exhaust would stick to 2.5" DIA with a high flow cat or test pipe depending on your state if you have SMOG.

You can always deck the head to increase compression. Get your crank/rods balance. New Bearings.

As for Injectors I would not go over 340cc for NA.

I did not see anything about cam gears?
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrorimg View Post
Going to need something a bit better flowing than a stock exhaust system. And a straight through muffler will flow better than a chambered.
Holy crap, nice sig change is good

Yeah that's true..maybe a 2.5" piping all the way back.

Hey LS-SLOW, is this going to be a car drivin on the street or a track slut? lol mybad for the dumb question.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:36 PM   #7
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behind the 4-2-1 header is 2.5" test pipe and piping all the way back to a straight thru muffler.

met a guy yesterday that says 13.0:1 compression is too high for the best pump gas. i need to research that b/c thats about were im going to be.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:55 PM   #8
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13:1 is too high for pump gas 91-94 octane.you will need about 100octan to run fine or e85. if you want 300whp i think you will need a 3" header because 2.5" may be restricting it. Also blox type B cams even the competition cams are only a stage 2 cam, i dont believe you will be getting more than 220 on a perfect tune. Blox type C have the same grind as the JUN 3 cam, research those, if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want 300whp i suggest Rocket motorsports cams (the high end ones) or TODA VTEC Killer Cams, you need really really really agressive cams for 300whp, skunk2 pro2+ gives out 275whp on a b20vtec on 14:1 compression i belive, so maybe a little more on a pro3+ setup. I believe more agressive cams are going to take to a 84mm bore and make more power, thats why people with 1.8L pro2+ setups make less power than 2.0L set ups on pro2+ cams. I also suggest minimal, a victor X intake manifold and a skunk2 70mm throttle body and a 70mm intake piping at minimum, make sure the IM is port matched to the head and TB.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:03 PM   #9
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e85 will do the trick? if so, would i have to run 100% e85 or a mix? finally, what would i have to do to run it safely?
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:17 PM   #10
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Why is revving to 10K a goal of yours? You only want to keep revving so long as the engine is still making power. And it's gonna cost you a bunch of extra money upgrading all the required head components and beefing up the bottom end to get the engine to handle 10,000 rpm and not explode. Even a Type R "only" revs to 8,400... an S2000 to 9,000....10K, my God!

You don't need to replace your rods, but won't hurt doing it. Your money, lol.

Reaching 300 NA whp on a streetable car is impossible, you'll max out around 230ish.

12.75:1 is pushing the limits of pump gas, hope you got 93 octane in your state if you want to reach that range of comp. And a damn competent tuner.

TB in the 62-66mm range. OEM ITR TB is 62mm, you could get one of those and bore it a few mm's, keep some OEM reliability. BBK are nice TB's too.
Skunk2 or Blox IM are good sizes, don't get one of the massive ones meant for turbo'd engines.
You don't need a new fuel rail or FPR, just injectors. Fuel pump would be good insurance, but not a must.
You don't need aftermarket engine mounts, but they won't hurt, if you don't mind the added vibration in the cabin.

3 inch header/exhausts are for turbo'd engines. 2.5 is ideal for you.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TegSox View Post
Why is revving to 10K a goal of yours? You only want to keep revving so long as the engine is still making power. And it's gonna cost you a bunch of extra money upgrading all the required head components and beefing up the bottom end to get the engine to handle 10,000 rpm and not explode. Even a Type R "only" revs to 8,400... an S2000 to 9,000....10K, my God!
agreed

You don't need to replace your rods, but won't hurt doing it. Your money, lol.
I would upgrade the rod bolts obviously with some ARP ones but i would for sure want to do a rod upgrade to be on the safe side reving up to 10k

Reaching 300 NA whp on a streetable car is impossible, you'll max out around 230ish.
Agreed, Toda Killer cams, the obvious choice if you were to reach 300whp dont idle below 5k

12.75:1 is pushing the limits of pump gas, hope you got 93 octane in your state if you want to reach that range of comp. And a damn competent tuner.
agreed you may want to do a 100 octane blend with 91 which will yeild different octanes if 93 is not avalible. Ie 1gallon of 100 and 9 gallons of 91 is 92 octane. or E85 but your tuner as stated before must be good

TB in the 62-66mm range. OEM ITR TB is 62mm, you could get one of those and bore it a few mm's, keep some OEM reliability. BBK are nice TB's too.
Skunk2 or Blox IM are good sizes, don't get one of the massive ones meant for turbo'd engines.
You don't need a new fuel rail or FPR, just injectors. Fuel pump would be good insurance, but not a must.
Depending on the route taken, he may want to upgrade to a larger throttle body to accomodate the power past 230whp, some dyno sheets have shown 65mm with a blox IM port matched can yeild 236whp on a 1.8L

You don't need aftermarket engine mounts, but they won't hurt, if you don't mind the added vibration in the cabin.
its not a must but depending on how he drives and the build it wouldnt be a bad idea to atleast get some inserts

3 inch header/exhausts are for turbo'd engines. 2.5 is ideal for you.
yes and no, depending on the build a 3" may be utilized as seen with the K20 cars, an NA k20 will use a 3"

i have some other thoughts as shown above Barry, Im going of of him wanting a LS crank gsr everything else hybrid and a goal of 300whp my reasoning is bolded for stuff, just my opinions and observations
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:51 AM   #12
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i have done some research and used a few diff compression calculators and come up with my TRUE compression is around 12.1 - 12.3.

also looking to trade out my type b cam for the type c. were the same price.

THANKS FOR THE INFO. keep it coming
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:23 PM   #13
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called up blox to get some info on piston to valve clearance and came up with an "depends on ur setup". figured they would say that but that's not my point.

according to BLOX the type "C" cam is designed for 13:1 compression and up and that i would be happier with the power gains and responsiveness with the type "B".
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:01 PM   #14
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do you have enough money to cover the build expenses?
my buddys build cost him around 8 grand on a b20 vtec and hes still only making around 250hp. thats with 85mm bore.

i dont kno how how you plan to achieve that hp number.
do you have any setups that use stock bore that get even close to 300 hp on stock sleeves?


example from honda tech:

98 jdm itr longblock
81.25mm ctr pistons
skunk2 stg 2 cams
skunk2 cam gears
skunk2 ti-retainers
skunk2 dual valve springs
skunk2 gen 1 im
j's racing intake
5 angle valve grind
milled head
decked block
stock gaskets
stock injectors
high-end header
omni adjustable test pipe
pit 2.5" exhaust

usdm itr tranny
carbon coated synchros

191hp/ 135tq


check out evans tuning for a better idea on what those mods will get you


you will also not pass emissions with a setup like that. and daily driver will mean you will wear it down much quicker.
since the racing parts are not made to endure the high mileage of daily driving,they made for race and replace.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:55 PM   #15
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as far as the expenses... everything except the intake setup and injectors are already purchased. the setup you described looks like it has 2 problems in comparison to mine.
1. stock injectors
2. stock throttle body (assuming b/c one not listed)

to get closer to my build goals, i have also looked into making it an itb setup.
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