I would assume that a stock K20 "T-S or Si"
Would put down around 180 to the wheels. Maybe 15 or if you have some real nasty bolt ons & maybe a tune, 20whp. that will be around 190-200whp and some nice torque.
(Of course this is all over estimating)
After all the money you spent putting into that K20 and putting it in, you have a fully built GSR N/a engine. That engine my buddy built cost him 8-9k.
So, would you like to tell me how logical it would be to swap in a k20?
Take into consideration, that it will be harder to tune, bolt ons are far more expensive, as well as internal modifications.
Yes, a GSR can hit 200whp with a built head & a good tune. Go research it. And thats spanking stock K20s. And yet that K20 would still cost thousands more & to swap in.
Bring an RSX-S or SI into this, and a 200whp Integra GSR would leave them dusted on the line due to the weight difference, even with bolt ons.
The only way a K20 is a logical choice is if its already in your car stock or came with it."or if money wasnt an option"
Even though, an Integra GSR is almost on par with the RSX-S. They will both be on par once you start building, but the GSR is cheaper. Yes the RSX would be making more power, but the weight difference would be hoding it back to remain on par with a GSR always.
Trust me coming from NA ive done more than my fair share of "research". Im not telling the OP to swap in a K20 into his car, I was just referring to the "$1000" will get you K20 power comment above. And the answer to that is no, it will not get you "k20 powah"
1,000 into the head will get you a set of decent cams, and the retainers and springs to go with them. Port and polish the shit out of a b series head if you want but it wont flow anywhere near what a K head does. But im not about to get into this debate. K > B
Trust me coming from NA ive done more than my fair share of "research". Im not telling the OP to swap in a K20 into his car, I was just referring to the "$1000" will get you K20 power comment above. And the answer to that is no, it will not get you "k20 powah"
1,000 into the head will get you a set of decent cams, and the retainers and springs to go with them. Port and polish the s*** out of a b series head if you want but it wont flow anywhere near what a K head does. But im not about to get into this debate. K > B
Someone's GSR setup... Pretty s***ty I/H/E combo if you ask me
1995 GSR, I/H/E Set-up on Mild tune.
First run: 158.8hp, 120.54 tq
Second run: 160.01 hp @ 7800rpm, 123.63 tq @ 5800rpm, 90% torque available from 2800-7200rpm
Conditions: ~98°F, ~30% humidity
So... if a GSR with a bad combination of bolt ons, is that close to a K20A2 "I'm assuming it's not a K20Z"
Why wouldn't a GSR with a full blown good bolt ons and fully built head and tune not be able to totally cream on this K20 or ITR?
I'm sure the mild tune jumped on that power.
Do you see what I'm saying... LoL
I think you're putting down your own engine a little too much.
When I said 1k for the parts for the head? That's what I meant.
I said that while youre still spending cash for that K20 or ITR B18C, you could have built the head already w/ a tune. Of cource I'm not adding the price for bolt ons, because that's a given.
All you need is a badass combo I/H/E, built head, and a good ass tuner. For that 200whp.
In the research I've done it's possible. My friend hit that with bolt ons on his old Type-R with good bolt ons and a tune. A GSR should be able to hit that with the help of a built head.
I will be doing this setup as soon as my rings go on my GSR.
At 204k my engine is still running strong as hell. :lol:
Someone's GSR setup... Pretty s***ty I/H/E combo if you ask me
1995 GSR, I/H/E Set-up on Mild tune.
First run: 158.8hp, 120.54 tq
Second run: 160.01 hp @ 7800rpm, 123.63 tq @ 5800rpm, 90% torque available from 2800-7200rpm
Conditions: ~98°F, ~30% humidity
So... if a GSR with a bad combination of bolt ons, is that close to a K20A2 "I'm assuming it's not a K20Z"
Why wouldn't a GSR with a full blown good bolt ons and fully built head and tune not be able to totally cream on this K20 or ITR?
I'm sure the mild tune jumped on that power.
Do you see what I'm saying... LoL
I think you're putting down your own engine a little too much.
When I said 1k for the parts for the head? That's what I meant.
I said that while youre still spending cash for that K20 or ITR B18C, you could have built the head already w/ a tune. Of cource I'm not adding the price for bolt ons, because that's a given.
All you need is a badass combo I/H/E, built head, and a good ass tuner. For that 200whp.
In the research I've done it's possible. My friend hit that with bolt ons on his old Type-R with good bolt ons and a tune. A GSR should be able to hit that with the help of a built head.
I will be doing this setup as soon as my rings go on my GSR.
At 204k my engine is still running strong as hell. :lol:
Comparing your numbers where you are to mine isnt really apples to apples, there are way too many variables to consider. The dyno day I was at last year had a stock K20A2 making 180whp, BONE STOCK. Do you understand what im saying now?
A gsr making 200whp on a stock bottom end with a built head and bolt ons is questionable. Comparing it to your friends type R isnt really another apples to apples comparison either.
The type R has a completely different intake manifold, a port and polished head, with more aggressive cams, not to mention a higher compression ratio. Just because his hit those numbers with those mods does not mean your GSR will. Im not putting the GSR down, im being realistic.
If I wanted to make 200whp on a GSR I would personally do a setup like this
Intake
s2 intake manifold
valves/springs/retainers/ s2s2 cams
JDM ITR pistons
Tri Y
2.5 inch exhaust
Tune
Ill put money on it that with a healthy motor and a good tune that a setup like this will get you damn near 200whp depending on where you are and dynoing conditions. But at the end of the day, #'s are #'s.
If you actually want to go fast, dollar for dollar, forced induction is where its at. Ive had 2 all motor setups, 1 making 200whp, and while I liked the throttle response, the pull up top of a turbo car is much better IMO.
Its already been proven time and time again that the K series engine is amazing. Dont get me wrong, I like my B series, theyre so good that there really hasnt been much of a change to them for the past 2 decades.
The K series is much more responsive to modifications than the B series, the heads flow amazingly, not to mention 2.0L. Is it cost efficient to swap in a K20 in place of a B series? Depends.. you could use all that money to all out just build a B series. Is it more unique? sure.
I just came in to voice my opinion on what may be the case of a wording issue or misunderstanding. That being that $1000 dollars into the head of a B series engine being able to give you a 30+whp gain to what stock K20A2/Z1/Z3's dyno at. Unless this guy mean $1000 into the head on top of an intake/header/intake manifold/ and full exhaust then yeah it will give you "k20 power".
Anyways, congrats op, I apologize for being off topic.
Comparing your numbers where you are to mine isnt really apples to apples, there are way too many variables to consider. The dyno day I was at last year had a stock K20A2 making 180whp, BONE STOCK. Do you understand what im saying now?
A gsr making 200whp on a stock bottom end with a built head and bolt ons is questionable. Comparing it to your friends type R isnt really another apples to apples comparison either.
The type R has a completely different intake manifold, a port and polished head, with more aggressive cams, not to mention a higher compression ratio. Just because his hit those numbers with those mods does not mean your GSR will. Im not putting the GSR down, im being realistic.
If I wanted to make 200whp on a GSR I would personally do a setup like this
Intake
s2 intake manifold
valves/springs/retainers/ s2s2 cams
JDM ITR pistons
Tri Y
2.5 inch exhaust
Tune
Ill put money on it that with a healthy motor and a good tune that a setup like this will get you damn near 200whp depending on where you are and dynoing conditions. But at the end of the day, #'s are #'s.
If you actually want to go fast, dollar for dollar, forced induction is where its at. Ive had 2 all motor setups, 1 making 200whp, and while I liked the throttle response, the pull up top of a turbo car is much better IMO.
That Tri-Y will hold you back more than you might think. (actually costing you power high end)
For a GSR or Type-R to get power "Even B16", you need that 4-1 RMF or some other variant.
The Tri-Y makes more power Mid-Range than high costing you valuable HP that we need up there.
You have to remember that the Tri-Y will make the power with this setup I'm thinking between 4800-6000ish at it's peak, where it would bearly beat the 4-1 slightly, but this isn't where the engine shines anymore especially without the snail manifold anymore to provide a flatter torque line in that area. These engines will be Revvin HIGH through every shift.
You're right. The snail manifold will start holding you back unless you modify it or replace it with a different aftermarket one. Once you get around 180ish whp.
The only major difference is the JDM ITR Piston bumping your compression on a GSR block to 11:5ish. That will put you over what we're talking about here depending on the tuning. Major of the power difference is on the Head and on the Tuning. That is key unless you plan on breaking this.
On your F/i setup, it's VERY important to build that bottom end and top. Having a balance to run the turbo. Because you will blow something if you're running to high and something isn't built. Of course you know that tuning is key since you're boosted.
That bottom end doesn't make the world of a difference "YET" until you start going somewhere further with the head and need that bottom end compression to get you to the next level. The head is where it is all at right now and the right choice of parts w/ stock compression.
If we are talking "BIG" here. Of course F/i is the way to go. It's just not my style. I like N/a's fun factor and puzzling.
Most people expect to get beat by an F/i. When people get beat by a 4 cyl N/a, their face expression is priceless.
All and all, my goal is to run 13's all day with A/C and power steering while staying fairly reliable.
Comparing a Type-R to a GSR is comparing apples to apples.
Majority of the difference is on the head and that is my whole point.
By no means do I mean to disrespect you in any way.
This is just a fun filled argument.
If a B16 can make 200whp with everything, I don't think a GSR would need the same. Lmao
As far as dynos go, as long as both are in that range. Dyno's will vary. 180whp, 175whp.
My calc says 170 completely stock. Hand in Hand, you get the point 170-180whp is obtainable.
Cripton--A gsr with just head work done and a really good tune will generally give you around 30 extra horses to the wheels TOPS, which is still not faster than a 05/06 rsx s. You are acting like the b18c1 is such an amazing quick motor.. it is, WHEN TURBOED.
You said something like a gsr is about the same as a type s? Lol A type r and a type s are about equal. Unless you think a gsr is faster than a type r as well? Come on man, I love my gsr too but quit making it out to be something its not.
Cripton--A gsr with just head work done and a really good tune will generally give you around 30 extra horses to the wheels TOPS, which is still not faster than a 05/06 rsx s. You are acting like the b18c1 is such an amazing quick motor.. it is, WHEN TURBOED.
You said something like a gsr is about the same as a type s? Lol A type r and a type s are about equal. Unless you think a gsr is faster than a type r as well? Come on man, I love my gsr too but quit making it out to be something its not.
Sorry to break it to you dude. 30whp in a GSR will beat a Type-S even if what you said was true.
The weight difference. That would put the GSR and Type-S around the same WHP except the RSX would weight a couple more hundred pounds. Stock Type-S RSX "the car" aren't much faster than GSR's.
Most runs on RSX-S and GSR's are both in the 15's.
Where is your reasoning bro.? 30whp with full blown I/H/E, built head, and a tune.
Gawd lord. If good bolt ons gave you 15whp w/ a tune. That would mean that a fully built head would only give you around 15whp. LoL
Combined 30??? wow. That's bad.
Here's a list of header on an ITR. See each of their gains since an ITR is like Honda's mild build stock engine.
With everything stock and just replacing the header and stock 2.36" (piping or whatever it is) & CAT.
Yeah, this is kinda s***ty to do. This is what happened when my boy posted his RSX, it became a bog argument about which was better. i think it would be most prudent to just post a damn thread so you guys can argue to your hearts content about the subject and not take away from someone else' accomplishment or build. :twocents:
Yeah, this is kinda s***ty to do. This is what happened when my boy posted his RSX, it became a bog argument about which was better. i think it would be most prudent to just post a damn thread so you guys can argue to your hearts content about the subject and not take away from someone else' accomplishment or build. :twocents:
We all know the K is betta OG
But, everyone seems to be underestimating the GSR. LMAO
The K is being overly hyped here. No doubt, it's betta though... no doubt my man. :thumbs up
They're underestimating the B and overestimating the K. What up with that???
The Type-R "swap" is just a waste of money unless you get it for the same price, want bragging rights, want to stay stock "realiability", or want a nice looking red valve cover. Haha
Talk to engine builders and they will say the same, because in a build, the cast will be used and not the internals. Might as well get the "Almost" GSR and use that block.
That Tri-Y will hold you back more than you might think. (actually costing you power high end) - The differences are really minute if you look at graphs, this isnt going to be the make or break for most builds
For a GSR or Type-R to get power "Even B16", you need that 4-1 RMF or some other variant.
The Tri-Y makes more power Mid-Range than high costing you valuable HP that we need up there.
You have to remember that the Tri-Y will make the power with this setup I'm thinking between 4800-6000ish at it's peak, where it would bearly beat the 4-1 slightly, but this isn't where the engine shines anymore especially without the snail manifold anymore to provide a flatter torque line in that area. These engines will be Revvin HIGH through every shift.
youre deviating from the main point here, this isnt a header debate unfortunately
You're right. The snail manifold will start holding you back unless you modify it or replace it with a different aftermarket one. Once you get around 180ish whp. There really isnt a magic number where these things become inefficient. This style of intake manifold is really inefficient to begin with even in forced induction setups
The only major difference is the JDM ITR Piston bumping your compression on a GSR block to 11:5ish. That will put you over what we're talking about here depending on the tuning. Major of the power difference is on the Head and on the Tuning. That is key unless you plan on breaking this.
On your F/i setup, it's VERY important to build that bottom end and top. Having a balance to run the turbo. Because you will blow something if you're running to high and something isn't built. Of course you know that tuning is key since you're boosted. lets not step into FI territory here, this statement couldnt be more untrue
That bottom end doesn't make the world of a difference "YET" until you start going somewhere further with the head and need that bottom end compression to get you to the next level. The head is where it is all at right now and the right choice of parts w/ stock compression.
false. The best way to make a built head efficient is to build the bottom end with higher compression pistons. Ask any tuner on their opinion on running an aggressive cam with a stock compression bottom end. Youre not utilizing that setup to the fullest, and thus its really a waste of money. What is essentially being suggested here is "lego building".
If we are talking "BIG" here. Of course F/i is the way to go. It's just not my style. I like N/a's fun factor and puzzling.
Most people expect to get beat by an F/i. When people get beat by a 4 cyl N/a, their face expression is priceless.
All and all, my goal is to run 13's all day with A/C and power steering while staying fairly reliable.
dollar for dollar building an FI car to run sub 13's is cheaper and easier than building an all motor car that will run sub 13's. Isnt the whole reason youre not suggesting a K swap is because of the money factor? Ill put $2,500 into an FI setup, run 12's and go home while making almost twice the amount of power than a big set of cams and bolt ons, just the reality. Its been done time and time again.
Comparing a Type-R to a GSR is comparing apples to apples.
Majority of the difference is on the head and that is my whole point.
imo not apples to apples. The design is the same, the components are different, this is why they have different aspects to their power and power band. Its not just the head, its ALL the components working together. you wouldnt go out and buy a top of the line impact gun only to run it on a piece of s*** air compressor right? I hope youre seeing my point here
By no means do I mean to disrespect you in any way. ditto
This is just a fun filled argument.
If a B16 can make 200whp with everything, I don't think a GSR would need the same. Lmao
As far as dynos go, as long as both are in that range. Dyno's will vary. 180whp, 175whp.
My calc says 170 completely stock. Hand in Hand, you get the point 170-180whp is obtainable.
Sorry to break it to you dude. 30whp in a GSR will beat a Type-S even if what you said was true.
The weight difference. That would put the GSR and Type-S around the same WHP except the RSX would weight a couple more hundred pounds. Stock Type-S RSX "the car" aren't much faster than GSR's.
Most runs on RSX-S and GSR's are both in the 15's.
We all know the K is betta OG
But, everyone seems to be underestimating the GSR. LMAO
The K is being overly hyped here. No doubt, it's betta though... no doubt my man. :thumbs up
They're underestimating the B and overestimating the K. What up with that???
