Turbo vs Super - Ideas & Opinions?

[Robbdance]

Hey guys, been on these forums for a while now and I've taken some breaks from posting over the past bit. I've got a 2000 RS currently sporting a B20B.. Ran into some trouble back in January with my original B18B1, so I decided to swap the B20 in for the time being.

That being said, I now have a B18B1 sitting around, and I'm going to be throwing some time and money into it in the near future. I've got all the time in the world, and parts will come as the money does. So far, I've decided that I'm going to rebuild the engine. Not going to screw around - pistons, rods, valves, springs, retainers, micropolish the crank.. The whole 9. Since I have a running motor, I'm going to take my time with this and go for a forged setup. I figure I might as well just go balls deep the first time, save myself future trouble and have lots of room for possibly running more power through it.

The part that I'm debating right now is whether I want to go for a supercharged or turbocharged setup. Always been a fan of turbos, but I'd like to get opinions for either side. End goal is to make around 260hp at the wheels, maybe push around 14-15 psi if I decide to go with a turbo - not sure what the supercharged equivalent would be as I'm not all that familiar with them.

Money is essentially a non-issue, as the parts will be put together and installed as I get them over the next year or so - but I'd rather not go absolutely crazy. This is going to be put into a daily driver, and I want it to be reliable. Obviously a good tune will be done.

If you guys could give me thoughts and ideas, it would be much appreciated. Any information helps and is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

 

[96LSteg]

Good luck finding a supercharger for the B1. They are pretty rare and pricey

 

[OGstackadoIIa]

Touch it - boost it - babe - watch it - turn it - leave it - stop - format it

 

[OGstackadoIIa]

 

[Robbdance]

Good luck finding a supercharger for the B1. They are pretty rare and pricey

Thanks? I've seen 5 in the past couple months on local forums. Reasonably priced as well - ~$1000-$1400 for a Jackson Racing kit.

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[Muckman]

Cute. Clearly you havent ridden in a small turbo boosted setup. 75% of all turbo hondas are using oversized turbos. A GT28 can give instant boost response and still make 350+hp. And when I say instant, I mean instant like a roots supercharger. And the JRSC is a horrible outdated and inefficient (read: heat pump) Eaton roots blower. It was even outdated when the kit was new and popular. So then Jackson started a new company Kraftwerks who sells centrifugal superchargers. Oh thats wonderful, now we have supercharger lag that doesnt reach full boost until redline...

 

[JustinMcGee1]

Almost everyone (from what I've seen) goes with turbo

this post was made in china using Taptalk2

 

[cvcrcr99]

I miss my supercharger back when I had a Civic with a D series. OP, you will make more power with a turbo.

 

[Robbdance]

Cute. Clearly you havent ridden in a small turbo boosted setup. 75% of all turbo hondas are using oversized turbos. A GT28 can give instant boost response and still make 350+hp. And when I say instant, I mean instant like a roots supercharger. And the JRSC is a horrible outdated and inefficient (read: heat pump) Eaton roots blower. It was even outdated when the kit was new and popular. So then Jackson started a new company Kraftwerks who sells centrifugal superchargers. Oh thats wonderful, now we have supercharger lag that doesnt reach full boost until redline...

Right now I'm leaning towards the turbo side, I'm simply looking for opinions for what would be a decent setup. I've ridden in boosted Hondas (and goofy Toyotas) before, and I know that most people are using way too big of a turbo. A friend of mine just finished boosting an S2000 for a customer, and has a centrifugal super on his own S2K.

I know exactly what you're talking about when you say it doesn't reach full boost until redline - his starts spooling earlier now, but doesn't reach full boost until 6k.. Fortunately for him, he has a 9k redline, but after he finished boosting the other S2K, he quickly realized that he should have gone turbo instead.

I was simply toying with the idea of going for a supercharged setup because I rarely see them.. I do, however, realize that a turbo would be a much better (and probably far more cost effective) setup than a super.

Not trying to be a know it all whatsoever - That's why I'm posting here. I know a fair amount, but I still have much more to learn.

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[95teggyse]

def go turbo imo leave the superchargers to the v8's lol, turbo up kick some v8 a$$ good luck w/ your project

 

[Muckman]

Well you wont make 260 with a JRSC. Now if 260 is your goal then you can do that with a tiny turbo. If you have the budget to do it right then design your build around the GT28RS. Its expensive but its the best in its class.

 

[95B18BTurbo]

Cute. Clearly you havent ridden in a small turbo boosted setup. 75% of all turbo hondas are using oversized turbos. A GT28 can give instant boost response and still make 350+hp. And when I say instant, I mean instant like a roots supercharger. And the JRSC is a horrible outdated and inefficient (read: heat pump) Eaton roots blower. It was even outdated when the kit was new and popular. So then Jackson started a new company Kraftwerks who sells centrifugal superchargers. Oh thats wonderful, now we have supercharger lag that doesnt reach full boost until redline...

This is extremely true. I don't make big power numbers, but I'm gone before most guys even spool with my setup. It's a custom setup adapted from my LS days, but needless to say my EVO III 16g at 24psi shreds in comparison to most and it's a unique setup to boot.

 

[Robbdance]

Well you wont make 260 with a JRSC. Now if 260 is your goal then you can do that with a tiny turbo. If you have the budget to do it right then design your build around the GT28RS. Its expensive but its the best in its class.

I'm going to take my time with it, so budget isn't really a huge factor. I'd rather spend the money and do it properly the first time than have to go back and fix a whole bunch of junk. I looking at the disco potato anyway just because of all the good stuff I've heard about it. If I can eventually get more out of it, then I probably will, which is why I want to go nuts on the block right off the bat.

A friend of mine said that a titanium valvetrain wouldn't be all that great due to a lack of use in the higher end - any thoughts on that? If it's not necessary, then it'll save me a bit of cash for that disco potato.

Aside from that I'll probably end up throwing in forged rods & pistons and make dead sure I properly warm up the oil before getting on the boost a whole lot, and be even more anal about oil changes than I am now.

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[dc2GS-R]

For a 260hp application, a properly sized turbo is hard to beat. A roots type blower will not really get you there and with a centrifugal supercharger, the power under the curve is just not there. While they can make 260hp, you will spend 90% of the time making significantly less. A proper sized turbo would spool almost instantly and deliver a healthy dose of lower range power to compliment the package.

75% of all turbo hondas are using oversized turbos.

I didn't know anyone in the Honda world realized this. I thought only those on the outside looking in could tell. Now I know my thoughts are not completely alone :lol:

If you have the budget to do it right then design your build around the GT28RS. Its expensive but its the best in its class.

This is a very good turbo. Spools very quickly and still has the capability to make all the power you are looking for. As stated, Garrett is proud of their GT ball bearing series though.

This is extremely true. I don't make big power numbers, but I'm gone before most guys even spool with my setup. It's a custom setup adapted from my LS days, but needless to say my EVO III 16g at 24psi shreds in comparison to most and it's a unique setup to boot.

The EVO III 16G is a great budget friendly turbo. I had this on one of my Eclipses. Bang for the buck is way up there for this guy.

 

[Muckman]

I didn't know anyone in the Honda world realized this.

This trend started in 2004/2005ish when people thought lower boost pressures meant increased safety. So they were running larger turbos at lower psi. They made great numbers which wasnt surprising at all and it sounds impressive to say you make 400hp on 10psi on a stock block. This logic is retarded of course.

[There's a whole novel I could write here as to why and how... but Im not because nobody really cares]

The EVO III 16G is a great budget friendly turbo. I had this on one of my Eclipses. Bang for the buck is way up there for this guy.

Yes! When people cant afford the GT28xx I recommend the 16G (big or small). Ironically outside of the GT28 series there are really NO other modern aftermarket choices for <350hp turbos. The Mitsu TDO5H-16G is the best alternative for a quality small turbo. Being an OEM turbo its far better than the eBay sh!t turbos. The problem is used OEM units are becoming rare pushing the price up. And new genuine OEM units are as much as a GT28 is. Beware of new turbos claiming to be 16Gs off eBay for a really good price.

FYI there's a billet wheel upgrade called the GTX2863. 425hp turbo with the amazing response of the dual ball bearing disco potato!
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-186