NemesisCBR
Boredest Member
Taking notes. Nick had suggest i go with the eclipse turbo as a option for a budget build.
Turbo vs Super - Ideas & Opinions?
- Thread starter Robbdance
- Start date
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Get the GT28 if you can afford it, its amazing. Heres an old video of "Tony the Tiger" from Honda-Tech.
He was the first guy to really try higher compression and boost back when everyone was going low.
Robbdance - By the way hes a tuner in Toronto.
[youtube=Tony the Tiger GT2871R]xcxmLtQOV2U[/youtube]
He was the first guy to really try higher compression and boost back when everyone was going low.
Robbdance - By the way hes a tuner in Toronto.
[youtube=Tony the Tiger GT2871R]xcxmLtQOV2U[/youtube]
NemesisCBR
Boredest Member
Ive seen the gt28 recommended a few times and its definitely on my list if im not on a budget. Notably in AsianZT's thread on TI but hes got the rs version.
Robbdance
Straight Pipes
Pretty sure I know who you're talking about.. If it's the guy with the 1400hp+ Supra, 800hp+ Camry, 500hp+ Integra, as well as a few others.. Then yeah, I know exactly who you're talking about. A friend of mine knows him well, if I'm not mistaken.Get the GT28 if you can afford it, its amazing. Heres an old video of "Tony the Tiger" from Honda-Tech.
He was the first guy to really try higher compression and boost back when everyone was going low.
Robbdance - By the way hes a tuner in Toronto.
[youtube=Tony the Tiger GT2871R]xcxmLtQOV2U[/youtube]
As for running a VTEC head or going LS/V, would that be absolutely necessary? Not that I can't do it, I'd just prefer to stick with the stock B18B1. Camming it would be the preferred option from my end, if that would be just as viable as a VTEC head. Realistically, if I can get that 260 out of the RS head & block, I'd like to do that.
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dc2GS-R
Super Moderator
The EVO 3 16G is more like the the spool of a big 16G with the compressor flow capability closer to an 18G. They are capable of making 400hp as well. The EVO 2 16G is not a bad turbo. It's just more inline with a regular 16G.I dont know the older 16Gs at all. I only know the big 16G from an Evo9 can make over 400hp on 30psi.
Im sure an older Evo2 16G is not as good but I doubt 15psi is a realistic limit.
Sacrifice in comparison to a GT28 series? Minimal. GT series will be more responsive due to its ball bearing CHRA and it has slightly more power potential, especially the GTX wheel.
What a titanium valvetrain? You mean Ti retainers? I have them in my GSR. No problems so far.
I have had a Ferrea valvetrain in my Eclipse GSX for almost 10 years without issues.
Be careful which one. The factory 2G T25 turbo is a slouch, avoid it like the plague. A 14B from a 1G has some ok capability. They are reasonable for a mild car, but will have high rpm flow issues once you get bored and start cranking on it.Taking notes. Nick had suggest i go with the eclipse turbo as a option for a budget build.
Muckman
Not a M0derator
Yup, thats Tony at dynamotorsportsPretty sure I know who you're talking about.. If it's the guy with the 1400hp+ Supra, 800hp+ Camry, 500hp+ Integra, as well as a few others..
VTEC head is not required. I just thought you wanted to build this up. Keep in mind it will require more boost to reach a target goal. This won't be an issue at only 260 but it would be later down the road if you decide to push the turbo harder.
95B18BTurbo
New Member
In my experience if you want to stay with the LS head, it'll make more torque down low, but choke up top. I made 234whp and 210wtrq on the LS motor, but it took quite a bit of boost, The 210wtrq however was at 2500 rpms which made that thing move out down low. This kept me from going to VTEC for a long time. Once I did though, I never looked back. You can make the same torque, but have a shit ton more top end as some food for thought.
g3teg97
Super Moderator
Good info on the JRSC and Kraftwerks. I "knew" of the different types of supercharges. Always thought centrifugal was better, but lag and doesn't have full boost until redline??Cute. Clearly you havent ridden in a small turbo boosted setup. 75% of all turbo hondas are using oversized turbos. A GT28 can give instant boost response and still make 350+hp. And when I say instant, I mean instant like a roots supercharger. And the JRSC is a horrible outdated and inefficient (read: heat pump) Eaton roots blower. It was even outdated when the kit was new and popular. So then Jackson started a new company Kraftwerks who sells centrifugal superchargers. Oh thats wonderful, now we have supercharger lag that doesnt reach full boost until redline...
Robbdance
Straight Pipes
In all reality, I probably won't push anything more than 300 without swapping out the entire engine. For the time being, the car is just a daily.. If I ever want to push it past 300 or so, the car will be turning into a track beast and will be going through a big overhaul at that point.. But that's not for a long time now.VTEC head is not required. I just thought you wanted to build this up. Keep in mind it will require more boost to reach a target goal. This won't be an issue at only 260 but it would be later down the road if you decide to push the turbo harder.
I do want to build this one up, but if I can keep the stock head on it, I'd like to do so.
How much boost were you running to make those numbers? I've always said I would be happy with 210 at the wheels, but figured 260 would be a good goal to shoot for if I was going to be building up the bottom end like I plan on doing now.In my experience if you want to stay with the LS head, it'll make more torque down low, but choke up top. I made 234whp and 210wtrq on the LS motor, but it took quite a bit of boost, The 210wtrq however was at 2500 rpms which made that thing move out down low. This kept me from going to VTEC for a long time. Once I did though, I never looked back. You can make the same torque, but have a shit ton more top end as some food for thought.
I'll be doing some work in the top end as well, new valves/springs/retainers/etc.. It's a daily driver so I don't need a whole lot of action way up high.. I do like the sound of 210wtq way down low though. If I could make that from the low end and maintain a reasonable amount of power through the curve, I'd be more than happy. Where were you making that whp at?
If I can get my hands on a GT28RS like Muckman suggested, and have nearly instant spool and make some power around 3.5-4.5k rpm, that would be more than sufficient for my intentions.
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dc2GS-R
Super Moderator
A centrifugal supercharger is essentially a turbo compressor driven off the crank by a gear that provides it the super high rpm it needs to produce boost. Since it's speed is a fixed ratio above the engine, it produces little down low and builds with RPM.Good info on the JRSC and Kraftwerks. I "knew" of the different types of supercharges. Always thought centrifugal was better, but lag and doesn't have full boost until redline??
I remember way back when Sport Compact Car magazine had their project Si, they put a Vortech kit on it. The results cracked me up. It made like 275hp at redline. But if you looked at details, at 6k rpm it was 100hp less, at 5k it was barely making 100whp and falling rapidly. So while 275whp sounded cool, realistically you spend 95% of your time making less than 175.
g3teg97
Super Moderator
I'm sure I made the mistake of looking at that and saying "nice, 275whp, that's impressive." I later learned to look at the entire RPM range. Who cares about that much power at redline? How about mid range?I remember way back when Sport Compact Car magazine had their project Si, they put a Vortech kit on it. The results cracked me up. It made like 275hp at redline. But if you looked at details, at 6k rpm it was 100hp less, at 5k it was barely making 100whp and falling rapidly. So while 275whp sounded cool, realistically you spend 95% of your time making less than 175.
This is a huge reason why I am follwing Muckman's build thread and this one. Tons of great information and I learn something each time I go into one of these threads.
Muckman
Not a M0derator
I miss SCC..I remember way back when Sport Compact Car magazine had their project Si
Ironically mid range is the easiest place to make torque. But trying to make low end AND top end torque is a challenge.Who cares about that much power at redline? How about mid range?
Thats always been my goal.
dc2GS-R
Super Moderator
I do too. It was one of the few that actually expressed some intellect.I miss SCC..
g3teg97
Super Moderator
I saw you wrote that in your build thread.Ironically mid range is the easiest place to make torque. But trying to make low end AND top end torque is a challenge.
Thats always been my goal.
I guess my point was, I'd rather have mid-range power (more useable power) than just have my peak power at such a high rpm and not only that, for a short period of time.