Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
You may wonder why I made an LS/VTEC post in the lounge, well here goes on k624ash's build up thread here there starts a little debate between iphondatek and k624ash. This results in k624ash posting this link saying that Mr. Michael Delaney has some great info on why the LS/VTEC is crap in his opinion. Now I read thru his posts figuring he will make some good points but then I started laughing. I made a post back in the thread but it bothered me soo much and I am soo bored that i've decided to make a thread on it. Now I don't know where LS/VTEC was created like Michael Delaney does but i'm sure I could have googled it and figured it out. What got me was the statements Mr. Delaney was making, so I would like to go over them and point out which are bullshit and which are true.
Mr Delaney goes into how LS/VTEC does not make more power than a B18C1. Yes they will probablly make about the same amount of power BUT LS/VTEC will make more power sooner and I know that when I drive I would rather have more power at 4-5k rpms then having more power at 9k rpms. See he goes into this whole stock vs. stock comparison and states that a B18C1 will make more power at 9k rpms, too bad you can't rev a stock B18C1 to 9k rpms. Sorry Mr. Delaney.
He also goes into rod ratio, what he's saying is that you can't rev a LS/VTEC motor as high as a B18C1, well we all should know this by now. BIG DEAL, You make more power earlier than a B18C1 but maxes out sooner. So you make the power of a B18C1 at 7200rpm with LS/VTEC instead of waiting until 8500 rpms, somehow that doesn't seem that bad. More Torque and More Horsepower Sooner and you don't need to rev the living piss out of it. Why does the LS/VTEC make more power sooner, well it makes more torque because your getting about an extra 40cc more of displacement, also with the rod ratio, as he stated your moving the powerband down. Well comparing it to a B18C1 your moving it down, but if you've been driving a LS motor like most people that do LS/VTEC are you are keeping it where it is just getting more power. See what Mr. Delaney doesn't realize is that people don't get rid of their B18C1s for an LS/VTEC motor, they change their LS motors in LS/VTEC motors.
So moving on, Mr. Delaney now goes in to compression ratios, yes if you leave the pistons alone you get a little higher compression with the B18C, he states that because of this your overcamming the LS/VTEC motor, bullshit, that little compression will not make a difference in overcamming your engine, thats like saying by putting anything better than stock cams in your gsr your going to lose power due to overcamming the engine. Your not putting stage 3 cams in, your using stock GSR cams, because remember this is stock vs. stock.
He once again goes into reving higher overtime but as everyone once again already knows you don't rev a stock LS/VTEC engine as high as you would a B18C1. Now i'm not going into the Hype and i've built both LS/VTEC engines and B18c1s and I would prefer a B18C1 over a LS/VTEC but your comparing a motor that I can put together for around 1500 using all stock parts, to a motor that costs around 3-4gs.
But what really got me was the last post, where he goes into how unreliable LS/VTEC is. I would like to say that it is only as unreliable as you treat it. It was not meant to rev to 8-9 grand just like a B18C1 isn't meant to rev to 10 grand. He makes it seem like installing new dowels and ONE oil line is so much work, if that's the case maybe Mr. Delaney shouldn't be tuning cars. He also mentions oil squirters, a thing that just about every tuner I know takes out when building a motor because they are useless, they were just added insurance for Honda, something to ease their minds when making these motors. Same as the block girdle, another pointless design that unless your reving over 10k really serves no use in almost every builders eyes. Then he points out the rods once again, FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME, the only reason a stock LS/VTEC will have rod problems is from people over reving the motor, WHICH WILL BE THE CASE FOR ANY MOTOR. THEY ARE NOT MEANT TO REV AS HIGH AS A GSR. So if you break it it's your own damn fault. Its like comparing a b16 to a b18c and saying the b16 is better because it can last longer reving higher, thats because it was made to.
But my favorite part is this; quote "oil leakage, head gasket failure, vacuum leaks, early compression loss, excessive wear of components...." Mr. Delaney. All these problems have been cured, oil leakage? from where, headgasket failure? Why because people assembled it wrong, or maybe they use the wrong headstuds:lol:. Early compression loss, bullshit. Oh and the best Vacuum leaks, how the hell are you going to have a vacuum leak from doing an LS/VTEC build. Because I didn't know you had vacuum lines that ran from the block. Oh and once again excessive wear. BULLSHIT, if anything a LS.VTEC motor will last longer if you don't over rev it. Why well the bottom end isn't going to wear any differently just becasue you put a different head on it. And the head isn't going to be reving as high, and it has way more oil supply then it would if it were on a stock B18C1 so really why would you have excessive wear unless you were OVERREVING IT.
I would just like to say Mr. Delaney is a horrible source of information if this is the kind of bullshit that is coming out of his mouth, and it's people like this that are feeding the new, young tuners, wrong information and giving them these misguided views that makes them look like fools when they regurgitate this information to someone who actually know what there talking about.
Also if this is the crap that goes on on Team Integra I can completely understand why people join our site.
Mr Delaney goes into how LS/VTEC does not make more power than a B18C1. Yes they will probablly make about the same amount of power BUT LS/VTEC will make more power sooner and I know that when I drive I would rather have more power at 4-5k rpms then having more power at 9k rpms. See he goes into this whole stock vs. stock comparison and states that a B18C1 will make more power at 9k rpms, too bad you can't rev a stock B18C1 to 9k rpms. Sorry Mr. Delaney.
He also goes into rod ratio, what he's saying is that you can't rev a LS/VTEC motor as high as a B18C1, well we all should know this by now. BIG DEAL, You make more power earlier than a B18C1 but maxes out sooner. So you make the power of a B18C1 at 7200rpm with LS/VTEC instead of waiting until 8500 rpms, somehow that doesn't seem that bad. More Torque and More Horsepower Sooner and you don't need to rev the living piss out of it. Why does the LS/VTEC make more power sooner, well it makes more torque because your getting about an extra 40cc more of displacement, also with the rod ratio, as he stated your moving the powerband down. Well comparing it to a B18C1 your moving it down, but if you've been driving a LS motor like most people that do LS/VTEC are you are keeping it where it is just getting more power. See what Mr. Delaney doesn't realize is that people don't get rid of their B18C1s for an LS/VTEC motor, they change their LS motors in LS/VTEC motors.
So moving on, Mr. Delaney now goes in to compression ratios, yes if you leave the pistons alone you get a little higher compression with the B18C, he states that because of this your overcamming the LS/VTEC motor, bullshit, that little compression will not make a difference in overcamming your engine, thats like saying by putting anything better than stock cams in your gsr your going to lose power due to overcamming the engine. Your not putting stage 3 cams in, your using stock GSR cams, because remember this is stock vs. stock.
He once again goes into reving higher overtime but as everyone once again already knows you don't rev a stock LS/VTEC engine as high as you would a B18C1. Now i'm not going into the Hype and i've built both LS/VTEC engines and B18c1s and I would prefer a B18C1 over a LS/VTEC but your comparing a motor that I can put together for around 1500 using all stock parts, to a motor that costs around 3-4gs.
But what really got me was the last post, where he goes into how unreliable LS/VTEC is. I would like to say that it is only as unreliable as you treat it. It was not meant to rev to 8-9 grand just like a B18C1 isn't meant to rev to 10 grand. He makes it seem like installing new dowels and ONE oil line is so much work, if that's the case maybe Mr. Delaney shouldn't be tuning cars. He also mentions oil squirters, a thing that just about every tuner I know takes out when building a motor because they are useless, they were just added insurance for Honda, something to ease their minds when making these motors. Same as the block girdle, another pointless design that unless your reving over 10k really serves no use in almost every builders eyes. Then he points out the rods once again, FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME, the only reason a stock LS/VTEC will have rod problems is from people over reving the motor, WHICH WILL BE THE CASE FOR ANY MOTOR. THEY ARE NOT MEANT TO REV AS HIGH AS A GSR. So if you break it it's your own damn fault. Its like comparing a b16 to a b18c and saying the b16 is better because it can last longer reving higher, thats because it was made to.
But my favorite part is this; quote "oil leakage, head gasket failure, vacuum leaks, early compression loss, excessive wear of components...." Mr. Delaney. All these problems have been cured, oil leakage? from where, headgasket failure? Why because people assembled it wrong, or maybe they use the wrong headstuds:lol:. Early compression loss, bullshit. Oh and the best Vacuum leaks, how the hell are you going to have a vacuum leak from doing an LS/VTEC build. Because I didn't know you had vacuum lines that ran from the block. Oh and once again excessive wear. BULLSHIT, if anything a LS.VTEC motor will last longer if you don't over rev it. Why well the bottom end isn't going to wear any differently just becasue you put a different head on it. And the head isn't going to be reving as high, and it has way more oil supply then it would if it were on a stock B18C1 so really why would you have excessive wear unless you were OVERREVING IT.
I would just like to say Mr. Delaney is a horrible source of information if this is the kind of bullshit that is coming out of his mouth, and it's people like this that are feeding the new, young tuners, wrong information and giving them these misguided views that makes them look like fools when they regurgitate this information to someone who actually know what there talking about.
Also if this is the crap that goes on on Team Integra I can completely understand why people join our site.
Last edited: