high or low compression w/ turbo?

IntegraImport01

New Member
hey i have a B18a1 that i have to build off of....and i wanted to kno wut was better for a turbo kit.....high or low compression pistons?...im still a rookie to the scene.....just tryn to get all the knowledge possible so i can kno wut iam doin.....thanxs

:drive:
 
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TegSox

Super Duper Moderator
Fortunatley I'll be the first to answer your post so I can fend off the impending incorrect info that would have for sure come your way. That misinformation being: High compression engines are not good for boosting. It's a very common misconception about turbo's that you hear spouted all over internet boards, among friends, ect...
A turbo can function just fine with high or low compression pistons...its all about the tuning. You can benefit from all the advantages that higher compression provides and still boost if you tune your air/fuel, ignition timing, ect. correctly.
 

IntegraImport01

New Member
reply

TegSox said:
Fortunatley I'll be the first to answer your post so I can fend off the impending incorrect info that would have for sure come your way. That misinformation being: High compression engines are not good for boosting. It's a very common misconception about turbo's that you hear spouted all over internet boards, among friends, ect...
A turbo can function just fine with high or low compression pistons...its all about the tuning. You can benefit from all the advantages that higher compression provides and still boost if you tune your air/fuel, ignition timing, ect. correctly.
So since i have a B18a1 that iam going to boost at 8psi with a kit that is safe on stock internals....i was planing on upgrading my fuel and ignition anyways....so ur sayin that i could go with high compresion pistons?....PS i am goin to build my top end a little also.
 

TegSox

Super Duper Moderator
If you'll be getting high comp. pistons, I'ld also get some aftermarket rods at the same time to play it safe. But sure, knock yourself out with some high comp. pistons as long as you have a competent tuner to take care of that all important tuning aspect.
And what do you mean by "building the top end"?
 


IntegraImport01

New Member
reply

some one is goin to be opening the ports for me...and i was going to add crower cams...and dual valve springs. oh and maybe titanium valves.
 

Baldy201

New Member
If you dont have a compedent tuner around you then i suggest not going too high in compression. Lower compression is a safeguard against detonation, so if you cant find someone that is a good tuner go a little lower on the compression.
Also have some one that has been around Imports or bikes port your head. The Domestic way of porting heads will leave you with no bottom end and a wasted head. Do your research on your head porter, it will save you a lot of headaches later on.
On the cams make sure that you get turbo cams not the NA cams. People make the mistake of puting in NA cams (Crower 62403) instead of turbo cams (62402-T) which will not give them the power that they desire.
 

Eviloliv3

Nobody Listens To Me
all the above info is correct, but ill just reiterate it in another way

you can use both High and Low compression with boost. Low compression just allows for more boost to be shoved in the motor, as well as more mistakes you can make. High compression really needs to be tuned perfectly to prevent any detonation. also, the higher the compression, the less boost you can run.

you will yeild better power in off boost areas with higher compression, but your top end wont be as high. its better for an all around power curve.

you will yield better peak power with low compression, but it will be peaky (very small powerband, as opposed to high compressions wide powerband)

seeing as you are pretty new to the whole scene, i would say research research research. and then when you think you know it all, research some more before you do anything.

if i would have researched more, i would have bought some different parts, and gotten other parts cheaper.

and 8psi will be fine with stock engine if tuned right. my friends boost their stock motors to 14 psi. though they fabricate turbo kits for a living, so they know exactly what they are doing.

once again:

Low Comp: more boost, more peak power, less tuning needed
High Comp: less boost, broad powerband, lots and lots of tuning needed

which you choose is up to you
 


Chuckie Finster

New Member
Eviloliv3 said:
you will yield better peak power with low compression, but it will be peaky (very small powerband, as opposed to high compressions wide powerband)

Low Comp: more boost, more peak power, less tuning needed
High Comp: less boost, broad powerband, lots and lots of tuning needed
So what happens if I stick a very responsive turbo in a B18--like a Ball Bearing GT-28R? "Very small powerband" theory falls apart. The GT28 would have full boost at around 3500 rpm, at which time, you will be accelerating hard and have a healthy powerband. And by 5500 you're holding on for dear life. So if I raise the compression by 1 point (say 9.0:1 to 10.0:1) there'd be about a 3% increase in torque. You'd feel nearly the same pull. But either way, you're living large by 3500 rpm and your car pulls to redline, we'll make that 7000 rpm; safe and sound on an LS. You're saying that over 3000 revs on a well sized turbo is a peaky powerband?

Okay, so that scenario with out GT28 was a low boost, <10 psi. But Chuckie, I want more power and I want more boost. Okay, so lets play with the boost controller and raise boost pressure to 15 psi. This extra 5 pounds of boost just raised the inlet temperature by 50-70 degrees and our once willy-nilly intercooler doesn't get it so easy anymore, suffice to say, the intake temperature of the air going into the the engine rises dramatically as well. Suddenly, the low compression engine is working at maximum detonation threshold and the hi compression engine is experiencing severe pre-ignition and detonation--all else being equal. Okay, so we add more fuel to the hi-comp engine to fight knock; and we add more and more. By the time knock is eliminated (or as close as we can get) engine air fuel ratios are down to the 10-10.5:1 or less. As we all know, low a/f ratios rob power. A good a/f ratio for a happy turbo engine is usually around 11.5-12.5:1. Any lower and you lose power; any higher and you risk engine damage. We also pull out a lot of timing; raising EGT temperatures. Somehow, the hi-compression engine doesn't feel that spritzy anymore and every shift under power is followed by a big fat puff of black smoke. While the 9.0:1 is the happiest engine in the world at 15 psi on its octane limited fuel. But be aware, that if you did shell out the 5 bucks per gallon for some nice slow burning 100 octane unleaded, you might just as well run 10.0:1 at 15 psi as happily as the low c/r motor on normal pump gas.

My :twocents:, if you don't plan to run anymore than 8 psi, the stock internals are great for boost. And maybe you could even use a slightly higher compression for a bit more power all around. But if big boost is in your plans for the future, get the lower compression ratio, unless you want to be buying 100 octane unleaded all the time.
 

IntegraImport01

New Member
wow i really appreciate the info....you guys sound really perfessional......i guess there is a lot to research to do on wen it comes to buyin parts for an engine....so i will be doin a lot of reasearch and im gunna be learin as much as i can.....i wana do this the right way.....ill call the local tuner shops and see wut there input is.....well i will be keepin up with updates....but i kno this build will take a while....so i will update every step of the way.....feel free to post here on any info wen buildin a B18a1.....everyones opinion is very appreciated.....thanxs


:drive:
 

Chuckie Finster

New Member
:werd:

And like Baldy pointed out, make sure they're an import-friendly shop so they know what our 4 valve, pentroof heads like, as it turns out, the demands are a lot different from OHV V8's.

Baldy201 said:
Also have some one that has been around Imports or bikes port your head. The Domestic way of porting heads will leave you with no bottom end and a wasted head. Do your research on your head porter, it will save you a lot of headaches later on.
 

hyper98gsr

New Member
please go the extra mile and buy some arp head studs with your kit. today i saw a head literally come off today because a guy that came to the shop wanted to be cheap. now he is really gonna come out the pocket.

i have a saying i like to use: "unless you are rich, you cannot afford to be cheap."
 

Eviloliv3

Nobody Listens To Me
Chuckie Finster said:
So what happens if .....
that would have taken me a long ass time to type out.

i didnt really feel like getting into that much depth on it. people gotta do their own researching right? cant be spoon fed all the time...

oh... if you pull OUT timing, meaning run less timing, you wont be running hotter. when you add timing, you run hotter
 
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