Is LS/VTEC Bad?

[Prozon]

500 horse is a lot, and yeah, 300 is too.
There is a ton of difference between 500 and 300, and 300 and 130ish.

I think 500 is overkill to be streetable, there's no reason you need that much, and I doubt you will stay out of boost that often.

 

[mirrorimg]

Does this really make that big of a deal?

Helps keep the pistons cooler and lubricated. It will help over the life of the motor is it is revved high continuously. For a daily driving situation, you probably wont notice any difference.

 

[Stopsign32v]

ha! i think it depends on how good of a driver u are, do u really know the exact difference between 300whp and 500whp? not saying that ur wrong, but i think that if i got my car to 300whp from the 120ish it is now that would make a HUGE difference, so going from 300 to 500 should also be HUGE difference. but i could be wrong. just my thoughts.

I own a 331 Mustang that made 456rwhp N/A through 4.30 gears and a Cobra that makes 629rwhp through 4.30 gears also and slicks on a loaded Mustang dyno with a 150 shot of nitrous behind it. (changed the gears after the build, but point is lower gear ratio robs hp on the dyno) Yea, I kinda know what 500whp feels like. Both Mustangs are track prepped and weigh sub 3400lbs. The 331 one is probably around high 31xx or 32xx.

I would like my Integra to trap between 130-135mph in the 1/4th after I build the motor. Whatever whp gets me there.

 

[Prozon]

What do you mean lower gearing robs horsepower? It would effect top speed, but that's about it. It would help with power.

 

[Stopsign32v]

What do you mean lower gearing robs horsepower? It would effect top speed, but that's about it. It would help with power.

I meant lower gear ratio = high number. So 4.88 < 3.73. The lower gear doesn't put as much load on the dyno so it doesn't make as much whp as a higher.

 

[Prozon]

4.88 is a lower gear ratio then 3.73. 4.88 would produce more power then 3.73 because of the mechanical advantage, why do you think people gear their cars lower? I know this especially for drag cars and mud trucks, we gear down lower to help the motor spin the tires. 5.13's or lower in a mud truck. Usually a 4.10 or so is good for a drag car though.

Can't really vouch for a Integra's gearing because it is much higher, mainly for daily driving. I rarely see anyone re-gear a Honda lol.

But I digress...

 

[Stopsign32v]

4.88 is a lower gear ratio then 3.73. 4.88 would produce more power then 3.73 because of the mechanical advantage, why do you think people gear their cars lower? I know this especially for drag cars and mud trucks, we gear down lower to help the motor spin the tires. 5.13's or lower in a mud truck. Usually a 4.10 or so is good for a drag car though.

Can't really vouch for a Integra's gearing because it is much higher, mainly for daily driving. I rarely see anyone re-gear a Honda lol.

But I digress...

So you think people put a lower gear in the rear of their car because it makes more power???? Do you understand how gears and a dyno work?

All a lower gear does is multiply the torque of the car because it allows the driveshaft to spin at a faster rate than a higher gear. Drag racers go to a different gear depending on what their combination needs. You can't just pick a 4.10 gear and say "ah that will work good". It doesn't work like that. You need to know how much power you make, the weight of your car, how high you plan to rev the motor, and the size of your tires among other things.

 

[j13]

the longer stroke creates more torque. that on top of the vtec head would create a nice setup. the internals aren't built for such rpm but people do it all the time without problems

 

[Killahinteg]

You should just throw in some turbo and you'll be good for a while

 

[Prozon]

No Stopsign32v, that is not at all what i'm saying. The MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE of the LOWER GEARING helps put more power to the wheels. They were EXAMPLES. Not every mud truck will run 5.13's, I gave that as an example because it is what my truck is running. Most people I see are running much lower gears. The drag cars I was referring to were big block muscle cars mostly. 4.10's are usually what I see them running. Tire size doesn't vary much with cars. Most of them are the same height, and width doesn't matter much.

Don't try to lecture me, because I know damn well I know more then you. Anytime I see you post it's always garbage. How often do you give advise on turbo's when you don't know what your talking about? I'll bet Tam would agree with me on that one.

/Rant.

 

[BrokenTalon27]

Can we move this thread to the lounge now? Seeing as the responses now have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of LSVtec.

That and let Prozon and Stopsign32v continue the sparring match...I just need more beer...:beer:

 

[Stopsign32v]

No Stopsign32v, that is not at all what i'm saying. The MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE of the LOWER GEARING helps put more power to the wheels. They were EXAMPLES. Not every mud truck will run 5.13's, I gave that as an example because it is what my truck is running. Most people I see are running much lower gears. The drag cars I was referring to were big block muscle cars mostly. 4.10's are usually what I see them running. Tire size doesn't vary much with cars. Most of them are the same height, and width doesn't matter much.

Don't try to lecture me, because I know damn well I know more then you. Anytime I see you post it's always garbage. How often do you give advise on turbo's when you don't know what your talking about? I'll bet Tam would agree with me on that one.

/Rant.

How does lowering the gear PUT MORE HP TO THE TIRES? :shock: All the gear does is determine how fast the driveshaft spins. THATS ALL! The only thing a lower gear does is multiply the torque a motor makes. It in no way changes the amount of power the MOTOR makes. Now, how does a dyno work? Do you even know that? Who cares what your mudding truck runs in the rear. How does that even have ANYTHING to do with a dyno or drag racing? And you think a "big block muscle car" = 4.10 gears for the drag strip? You should stick to what you know, because you have no idea at all how dragracing works aparently.
Now you say tire size doesn't vary much with cars. Now are you talking about factory cars or are you still trying to figure out the drag racing thing? Do you even understand how tire size is a determining factor in gear selection?

I'm not trying to lecture you becaus clearly you know much more than me. After all you have a truck with 5.whatever gears in it you go mudding with and you have heard of some "big block muscle cars" that run 4.10 gears at the drag strip. You = book of knowledge. You might know more than me about Integras or mudding trucks but when it comes to drag racing you have no clue. I've been 10.9@126mph on a STOCK pos longblocked Procharged 99 Cobra. What have you done? Please....school me.

And as far as what I've posted I don't think I've given too much advice on turbos and not sure on the "garbage" you speak of but I'd love to see some links junior.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Can we move this thread to the lounge now? Seeing as the responses now have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of LSVtec.

That and let Prozon and Stopsign32v continue the sparring match...I just need more beer...:beer:

Yes I apologize for what this has turned into. No idea how what I said about MUSTANGS turned this into an off topic war between that guy and I. :roll: Maybe I should just let him think he is right and move on.

 

[Prozon]

How does lowering the gear PUT MORE HP TO THE TIRES? All the gear does is determine how fast the driveshaft spins. THATS ALL! The only thing a lower gear does is multiply the torque a motor makes. It in no way changes the amount of power the MOTOR makes. Now, how does a dyno work? Do you even know that? Who cares what your mudding truck runs in the rear. How does that even have ANYTHING to do with a dyno or drag racing? And you think a "big block muscle car" = 4.10 gears for the drag strip? You should stick to what you know, because you have no idea at all how dragracing works aparently.
Now you say tire size doesn't vary much with cars. Now are you talking about factory cars or are you still trying to figure out the drag racing thing? Do you even understand how tire size is a determining factor in gear selection?

I'm not trying to lecture you becaus clearly you know much more than me. After all you have a truck with 5.whatever gears in it you go mudding with and you have heard of some "big block muscle cars" that run 4.10 gears at the drag strip. You = book of knowledge. You might know more than me about Integras or mudding trucks but when it comes to drag racing you have no clue. I've been 10.9@126mph on a STOCK pos longblocked Procharged 99 Cobra. What have you done? Please....school me.

And as far as what I've posted I don't think I've given too much advice on turbos and not sure on the "garbage" you speak of but I'd love to see some links junior.

Alright, let me prove you wrong once again. Never once did I say "Lowering gearing gives your motor more HP!!!"

In fact what I said was this.

The MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE of the LOWER GEARING helps put more power to the wheels.

In turn it's pretty close to the statement I highlighted in bold which YOU said.

The only thing a lower gear does is multiply the torque a motor makes.

The only mention of a motor was someone saying the lower gearing "ROBS" horse power. Not really sure how it can ROB power by multiplying torque. Eh?

And honestly, I doubt you have ever even seen a Cobra. And even so, you say you've driven a stock cobra, you haven't done anything to it, and i'll bet you know nothing about one, in fact i'm pretty sure you know nothing about any kind of car or truck. I've grown up around race cars. My dad used to race, my uncles raced. I've been wrenching on cars longer then you could form a competent sentence. (Oh wait, you still can't.) Yes stopsign, I do know how tire size works with gear ratios. And the height is the only factor that does matter in the equation. And the tire heights on cars, do not change much. Want to give me an example if you disagree?

Lets put an example out here.
Say your tires are 30" tall. You have 130 horse power. To get better acceleration you will gear lower. To have a higher top speed, you will gear higher.
(As you should know, lower gears have higher numbers, higher gears have lower numbers.)
5.13 is a lower gear ratio then say, 3.73

Hell, go play Gran Turismo or Forza, you might just learn something! You ever try to tune the gears on there? Give yourself longer gears, give yourself a high gear ratio. You will top out faster, but your not going to get there very fast. Give yourself shorter gears, a low gear ratio and you will burn through all your gears and accelerate fast, but top out in no time at all.

I tried to give you an example that is easiest to understand for you lol.
Please, school me JUNIOR.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Alright, let me prove you wrong once again. Never once did I say "Lowering gearing gives your motor more HP!!!"

In fact what I said was this.

In turn it's pretty close to the statement I highlighted in bold which YOU said.

The only mention of a motor was someone saying the lower gearing "ROBS" horse power. Not really sure how it can ROB power by multiplying torque. Eh?

Hell I've asked you more than once now. DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW A DYNO WORKS? I'm going to guess no because you don't understand how a tire or gear effects the dyno reading. Here I will school you, scooter...

A dyno works on the amount of load you put on it. Higher ratio gears will give you lower chassis dyno numbers for a strange, but logical reason. In essence, the DynoJet calculates hp based on the time it takes to spin up the 2800lb roller assembly. It's basically work divided by time and rpm. Think about this: If you car is at idle in neutral and you stab the throttle, it will take time to accelerate to redline...let's say 1.1 seconds. Now let's say it takes 8.2 seconds for your car to accelerate the DynoJet from low speed to top speed with 3.23 gears and 7.3 seconds with 3.73 gears. Dyno printout says 355 rwhp with 3.23 gears and 346 rwhp with 3.73 gears...why?

Think about this: In the 8.2 seconds it takes to spin the rollers with 3.23 gears, it would still take the motor about 1.1 seconds to overcome its own inertia (idle to redline). There's about 13.4% of the work used just to accelerate the motor itself. With 3.73 gears, the time to reach redline decreases to 7.3 seconds. Divide the 1.1 seconds into the 7.3 seconds and you will see that overcoming the internal engine inertia costs 15.1% of the work with 3.73 gears. There is less hp available during this time period to spin the rollers so the DynoJet will read a slightly lower hp figure. Make sense, or did I lose you?

And honestly, I doubt you have ever even seen a Cobra. And even so, you say you've driven a stock cobra, you haven't done anything to it, and i'll bet you know nothing about one, in fact i'm pretty sure you know nothing about any kind of car or truck.

And I said it was a stock LONGBLOCK not a stock motor genious! LOL Do you know what a longblock is?

I've grown up around race cars. My dad used to race, my uncles raced. I've been wrenching on cars longer then you could form a competent sentence. (Oh wait, you still can't.)

There are alot of people that "race" that have no idea at all what they are doing when it comes to making a car perform at its peak posibility. The fact that you think 4.10 gears = best drag racing gear tells me two things. Either you have no idea what you are talking about and the reason is because you just stood in the shadows listening to whoever "raced". Or the people telling you these things had no idea what they were doing, in turn giving you false good information. I will explain in details below what I mean...

Yes stopsign, I do know how tire size works with gear ratios. And the height is the only factor that does matter in the equation. And the tire heights on cars, do not change much. Want to give me an example if you disagree?

Tire size in cars varies greatly depending on what car it is. For example a Integra runs a 23" tire from the factory and a Mustang runs a 26" tall tire. Big deal you say! Keep reading....

Lets put an example out here.
Say your tires are 30" tall. You have 130 horse power. To get better acceleration you will gear lower. To have a higher top speed, you will gear higher.
(As you should know, lower gears have higher numbers, higher gears have lower numbers.)
5.13 is a lower gear ratio then say, 3.73

This right here proves that you only know the basic of basic information regarding gearing and "racing". And keep in mind WAY back I pointed out that lower gear = numerically higher gear. Back to the point...

In drag racing the only point to gears is keeping you in your powerband as long and often as possible. So the first thing you need to do is set a goal. How fast do you want to go and what you budget is. Lets say you have done this and you came up with a badass motor that makes 360rwhp @ 6,800rpms. So now that we have that figured out we now need to make a shift point for your beast! Well we know you make the peak power at 6,800rpms after that it starts falling off. Well you have just built the motor and you aren't sure you want to rev it much past that so you set your shift point at 7,000rpms. Ok now we know where our shift point is!!! :thumbup: For what I use and since I've been doing it for so long I know what a given setup should run in the 1/4th. So I guesstimate what the MPH speed will be in the 1/4th. I'd guess your 360rwhp setup in your average domestic would put you around 116mph. So now we need to figure out a tire to go with. Obviously we want a slick so we can get all the power to the ground. Obviously the smallest tire we can run while still getting the power to the ground would be best. So MY personal choice is a nice 26x10 ET Drag. So lets just go with that. Now lets go over what we know so far...

your motor makes 350rwhp @ 6800rpms
you are going to shift it @ 7000rpms
you are going to run a 26" tall tire

Now lets see what gear would be best for us. I'd say either 4.30 or 4.56 but lets just see...Now since I'm sure you don't know you want to go through the traps (finish line) as close to 6800-7000rpms as you can in your 4th gear since most all 5th gear and above is a OD gear. (If you have a useable 5th gear then you can run even more gear.) Ok well you would say "lets throw a 4.10 in there cause thats what daddy did!!!" Well lets see what your 4.10 would do for your motor...

OOPS! The 4.10 has us going across the finish line @ 6,100rpms!! Lets look at other options...4.30 has us going past @ 6,446rpms. Getting closer...lets look at 4.56 like I said. BINGO! 6,836rpms. So 4.56 gears are what would be best for this setup.

Now back to the tire thing. What other tire size are out there? Well the most common that will still fit are 27" tall and 28" tall. No big deal right? Well lets throw a 27" tall tire in the rear with exactly what we have and see what happens...

Now we are going through the finish line at 6,583! How'd that happen? :cry: Because the gear determines how many times the driveshaft turns per one revolution of the rear tires. Well hell, lets see what happens with a 28" tall tire...now we are going through the finish line @ 6,348rpms! Way out of our powerband! So do you understand now how gears, tires, and dynos work? LOL

Hell, go play Gran Turismo or Forza, you might just learn something! You ever try to tune the gears on there? Give yourself longer gears, give yourself a high gear ratio. You will top out faster, but your not going to get there very fast. Give yourself shorter gears, a low gear ratio and you will burn through all your gears and accelerate fast, but top out in no time at all.

I can't believe you just used video game as a reference. LMAO!!! So you know what you know because daddy and uncle race and you play video games....how old are you?

I tried to give you an example that is easiest [to understand for you lol.
Please, school me JUNIOR.

School is dismissed. :lol: