Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
I'd love one too, my old dorm mate had one and I loved driving it, but there's no way I would have it as my only car. I gave him more rides when he had that then I can remember.
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99TegLs
Senior Member
i pre ordered the 2014, it's a nice car. and for the record, I considered a new camaro, the ugly new si, a brand new wrx (terrible mpg's) the genisis coupe is a no no for me. i will never roll in a hyundai. and to all you saying you would spend 25k on a used car and build it up. i ask you two questions. 1. hows the warranty/reliablility? 2. you would dd it? haha this was a thread dedicated to an itr/brz comparison!
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2kdb7
Member
I think if you are smart about it and do all maintenance before you mod/style it you'll be better off and it'll still be cheaper than buying new
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g3teg97
Super Moderator
Not sure why so much hate on the FRS/BRZ here.
I think it's a decent car, but for the money there are better options like CPO. I can pickup an amazing AP2 for that money.
Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
Because it's a mutt of a car, certainly not worth the money. The only reason they can get away charging that is because it's a rwd Japanese coupe where there is no competition.
It's not a Subaru, but they badged it and are selling it, why? Cause they put their motor in it. It's not an econo box scion, what hand did they really play in its development, but they're selling it. If anything it's a Toyota, which is weird cause they've been stuck making boring ass cars for quite sometime now, but all of a sudden they decide to make a sports car, great idea!
Really it was a great idea and if Toyota was the only ones with their hands in it I might feel different, but I don't want anything to do with a pimped around money making project.
3 groups of engineers working for 3 different companies trying to produce a single great piece of work can not come together well.
g3teg97
Super Moderator
Yes, I guess you would have to classify it as a mutt since it was co-developed with Toyota and Subaru. But, I don't understand the big issue with that.
Recently, Honda and McLaren announced that they may develop future road cars. Honda also annouced that they will be working with GM on Hybrid cars. Hasn't this happended with Ford and Mazda for the longest time.
The Genesis is probably the only competitor right now for the FRS/BRZ.
Check out this video for what Subaru did on the BRZ.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5263
The reason why Toyota started making sports cars is because the CEO, Akio Toyoda, said he wants Toyota to return to its roots with sportscars.
The boring cars suck, but at the same time, a company has to be profitable. If selling Corollas and Camrys are selling, why make something else?
Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
I'm just not into the co-development, usually car makers have a certain vision they wish to express in their cars, and the tendency to express themselves while keeping with the identity of the brand. When companies get together like this I don't feel like all involved can build the car like they really wanted, someone has to give.
I haven't been a Honda fan in a long time so I can't really say about their partnership with McLaren, however I do understand the use of sharing technology, and I'm ok with that. If one company makes something that another feels would work well with their vision that's ok. That is what Ford and Mazda used to have going on, they shared engines, platforms, etc, even so I wasn't a fan of most of the cars, because they really were soulless.
That's the main problem I have with the BRZ, it's kinda soulless, it may be a great car, it may perform exceptionally with a little tuning, but I don't get any great feelings from it, I checked the scion and subaru versions out at the last autoshow we had and just really wasn't impressed. The S2000, the Miata, both are really exciting, and there are lots more like them, but to me this isn't one of them.
Now the reason I think Toyota shouldn't have stopped making at least one sporty car is for customer attraction. Many people are brand loyal, with that being said I know there were plenty of customers that owned a Toyota, wanted an extra car or just a change up from their boring Camry, decided they wanted something sporty, looked at Toyotas lineup and saw nothing, then changed brands. We did it when we got rid of the Tacoma, so we went to Mazda.
But aside from my feelings, it's ridiculously overpriced for what you're getting, the Miata is only a couple thousand less, but you're getting a roadster that's been perfected for almost 15 years, and the Genesis can also be had for less, but look how much more performance you are getting, plus it comes with way more features and a nicer interior imo.
DarkDB1
New Member
So every car journalist that has driven everything from Lamborghini's to Prius'... Such as Chris Harris, Jeremy Clarkson and the people at fifth gear, Motortrend, Roadandtrack, autobytel, Cnet, Thefastlane, the smoking tire etc... Are all wrong?
Here's an interesting video comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jImHTWfj8aM
The S2000 beat the FR-S, Understandably so... However, Finding a clean un abused low mile S2000 is hard particularly when you want a factory warranty and small piece of mind knowing everything your car has been through makes the FR-S/BRZ more appealing than a S2000.
Toyota stopped making sports car for quite some time, They have actually had a "sporty"ish vehicle going since 2005 until this year. A Tacoma X-Runner which is what actually sits in my garage right now. Although a truck and it is heavy it does the same lateral G as a 350Z and that is with the X-Runners stock shitty Bridgestone tires... I have delightfully got a few people's jaws to drop on my way to and from work (I have a twisty mountain road as a backroad) in Civic's, WRX's, 350Z/370Z etc...
Honda has nothing right now and have had nothing but the Civic SI going which bows down to the Mazda Speed3, Focus ST, VW GTI, Mini Cooper S etc...
Oh wait a minute... Honda=Acura, Toyota/Scion=Lexus
Damn... Toyota sure made some boring ass cars the last few years and on.
But wait, It's a mutt... Toyota developed the body and suspension and Subaru made the engine. Because Subaru too has no idea what they are doing with making sporty cars too right?
I can see some concern for a mutt car (look at the new Fiat/Jeep Cherokee), But when credentials at making something outside an appliance is put fourth with companies that have a pretty good background into sports cars, It doesn't always fail.
The BRZ STI will be out around next year to add that extra oomph the car is lacking, And as it was said in the video link I posted. It was made with the idea that it was going to be a tuner car, Like all of Scions other line ups... Even in Japan you can order a super strip down FR-S with steelies and all if you wish.
And Toyota did recently announce that their sports cars will be in 3's where the FR-S will sit in the middle, So a Supra replacement as well as a new MR2 may just be in the near future. With BMW group helping build one of the 2 (world class handling meets world class reliability
)Aussie
Zoom-Zoom
Lol crap man, you're getting upset like you built the car or something, I didn't tell the guy not to buy it, or buy something else instead of it, I'm just speaking my thoughts on it.
I don't care that they made a "sporty truck", that's a truck not a car, not even close to being a car, and I think sports trucks are retarded. I also could care less about performance stats, we can put slicks on a stock Cavilier and have it pull those g's, that doesn't make it more appealing to me.
As for Lexus, they are Lexus, and Toyota is Toyota, so most of their shares are co-owned and they share the same parts, they still are completely different types of cars then what Toyota builds, so no they are not Toyotas. Plus you don't need to put words in my mouth, I never said that Subaru makes boring cars, or that they don't make sporty cars, I said "that it is not a Subaru." When has Subaru made a rwd coupe in the past, I sure as hell can't remember, if they did it was 30+ years ago so I'd say it's pretty irrelevant.
No matter how fast they make the car, it's never going to feel like anything special. So it's just another rwd coupe and I can think of others I'd rather own.
I hope if Toyota does plan on developing some sportier models in the future they do so by themselves.
Btw Mazda thought about working with Fiat on the new Miata, that lasted until they realized Fiat was going to mess up their timeless classic.
I don't care that they made a "sporty truck", that's a truck not a car, not even close to being a car, and I think sports trucks are retarded. I also could care less about performance stats, we can put slicks on a stock Cavilier and have it pull those g's, that doesn't make it more appealing to me.
As for Lexus, they are Lexus, and Toyota is Toyota, so most of their shares are co-owned and they share the same parts, they still are completely different types of cars then what Toyota builds, so no they are not Toyotas. Plus you don't need to put words in my mouth, I never said that Subaru makes boring cars, or that they don't make sporty cars, I said "that it is not a Subaru." When has Subaru made a rwd coupe in the past, I sure as hell can't remember, if they did it was 30+ years ago so I'd say it's pretty irrelevant.
No matter how fast they make the car, it's never going to feel like anything special. So it's just another rwd coupe and I can think of others I'd rather own.
I hope if Toyota does plan on developing some sportier models in the future they do so by themselves.
Btw Mazda thought about working with Fiat on the new Miata, that lasted until they realized Fiat was going to mess up their timeless classic.
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redGSRguy
New Member
Nice thing about the frs/brz is that the tuner market is huge right now since it is the most popular car in Japan. For Integra's everything has already been done and it is often harder to find older parts so that is a bit of a bummer.
I like the exclusivity of the itr, I rarely see more than one a day whereas I see 3-4 frs/brz during the day if I am out and about.
I still prefer my itr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J928E9p_-ik&t=6m2s
Here is more discussion from a less Integra fan base
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2153
I like the exclusivity of the itr, I rarely see more than one a day whereas I see 3-4 frs/brz during the day if I am out and about.
I still prefer my itr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J928E9p_-ik&t=6m2s
Here is more discussion from a less Integra fan base
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2153
DarkDB1
New Member
I didn't get upset, Just pointing the flaws in your "thoughts"... So, The NSX and Integra is Acura and not Honda by that standard. Akio Toyoda personally chose the people to develop the LFA and his company paid for it. So to say Lexus is Lexus and Toyota is Toyota is a completely inaccurate way to try and explain their differences. Just like Acura is to Honda, Acura is Honda's sporty and luxury brand, as is Lexus is Toyota's. But every once and awhile they will bring a fun car in to add spice to their otherwise dull line up (S2000/Supra).
I think I didn't make the point in mentioning the X-Runner clear or you didn't understand it, It's a truck... That they can make a truck handle as good as a sought after sports car is something to be considered for their recent credibility. Sports trucks are not for everyone, At the time of purchase a truck was needed but I didn't wan't something that would be boring to drive. X-Runner fit the requirements perfectly... Opinions are like a**holes, Everyone has one... I would be hard pressed to consider buying a FWD car ever again, But i'm not as biased to say hurr durr understeer and to think they're all crap. Because I know with the right set up and driver skill set that it can be a great combination.
I like how you said you got the feel of the car by just sitting in it at a car show, Without having ever driven one... I haven't driven one, But I am more inclined to believe professional drivers who drive a extremely wide range of cars for a living... With the bringing up of Subaru's credibility was me assuming you would try and make a debate about them building the engine.
I know 1 of the 2 they are doing by themselves, But the other is being developed in a BMW/Toyota joint venture that has the un biased car enthusiasts quite excited to see what will come out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xAVE6V7Zu4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4
"The 86 is something different all together. There's an effervescence about the way it approaches life, That gives its driver something more than just a great motor and exciting handling. It's a car by force of character, Improves every journey and not by outright speed, But by fun" -Chris Harris
Also, Every Ferrari made is a joint venture with pininfarina since 1951. Enzo Ferrari was so amazed with Farina's work he wanted them to help design every single car from that point on... Pininfarina has worked with GM, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Fiat etc...
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