Stay away from Carmax

[DarkDB1]

I originally posted it on the the 370z forum, But feel I should warn everyone and tell my story to who ever will listen.


Long story short, Bought a car from carmax, At the time everything seemed okay... Tried to trade it in and a accident shows up on the carfax report that wasn't there until last October that took place October 2009 (6 years ago). I was sold the 370Z being told it had a clean history and no previous accidents... Right now, I have just started fighting with Carmax and i'll update as this progresses.

UPDATE: 11/13/15... I was getting nowhere, They clearly have rehearsed responses because no matter who I talk to it's always the same word for word... I kept trying to reach out to them to give them the opportunity to make it right and was always told "we'll just fix the bumper support". I began talking to attorneys and on the 2nd one, I found one who would LOVE to take my case as he's sued carmax multiple times before who is now talking with consumer advocates. As of this very moment a retainer is probably sitting in my mail box... I tried to give them 1 last chance yesterday and today I was told they've done all they will.

But for now, Here's the detailed story.

-February 2015, I purchased the 2009 370Z Sport/Touring/Nav 6spd for $25K ($29K after everything was said and done, but put a $11K down payment)

-Most of March and early april the Z takes 4 trips to carmax in Modesto for various repairs, a chunk missing in the headlight, front chin spoiler missing, front bumper not aligned properly, missing clips, dead TPMS sensor and unusual scrapes... They fixed all but the scrapes, Found out the bumper had several missing brackets.

-2 CSC's later and $3000 in maintenance, repairs and upgrades that literally only include a TWM shifter, shift knob, wheel spacers, some LED's and window tint... I'm growing tired of the car.

-November 1st I go into carmax to get an appraisal on the Z and walk out with a $17K offer... As they did the appraisal I roamed the lot and found a 2015 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium for $40K that I really liked. But it's only $1K less than a new 2016.

-November 3rd I go into Livermore Toyota that has a Nautical Blue 2016 4Runner trail premium for $42K... I test drive and hand over the keys to the Z for their own appraisal. After about an hour the manager comes up to me and asks how to start the car... I explain it to him and he runs off but fails again and asks me to show him. As were walking out he's asking questions and mentions an accident on the carfax. That causes me stumble a bit... What?, I had 0 accidents and when carmax ran the autocheck it showed nothing of the sort when I bought it and when I got it appraised.

I asked to see it and he shows me 10/09/09 accident reported with the 1st owner (i'm 3rd), I think it's just a ploy so they lowball me on the Z so when I'm left alone in the waiting area I buy a 60 day subscription to carfax and run it myself... Sure enough it says it right there, But the kicker... in the notes of the incident "Carfax began following this incident 10/20/15".

After some hysterically high and low numbers were thrown around I leave in my Z again but not before the manager tells me they put the car on the lift and found frame damage that he was obligated by law to inform me of the findings... I'm already steaming from the carfax so now I'm pissed.

On the way out I called carmax to speak with a manager who wasn't in...

-November 4th... I write on carmax's facebook wall

"Last February I purchased a 2009 Nissan 370Z with 25K miles for $25K, Recently I started playing with just the idea of getting something bigger... I got it appraised with carmax in modesto on Sunday October 1st for $17K but didn't feel that was good enough for me to warrant getting rid of it. But I wanted to get a 2nd opinion and see some numbers on a 4Runner at a local Toyota dealership. I went in and when they ran the carfax on my car... Accident reported in 2009 (says it wasn't reported until October 2015, 8 months after buying this car), I bought my 370Z under the impression it was a "CQC" car and I even made the modesto carmax rectify every problem I had with the car which was in itself a pain in the butt to do... The toyota dealership put the 370z on the lift and found previous frame damage. Needless to say, I was lied to believing that there was no previous accidents yet alone any frame damage... I wasted my time and money on this car and I'm stuck doing so now"

I get a response from carmax

"Hi Alan, thank you for sharing these details surrounding your experience with our Modesto location, as well as your 370Z. At CarMax, we guarantee that there is no existing, or previous, frame or flood damage on any vehicle that is on our lot. Obviously this is something that we would like to look into a bit deeper and learn more about. Would you please provide your phone number and any further details that may assist with our research via a private message? We are eager to get involved. - Curt, Your Customer Care Team"

I responded

On 2/23/15 I went to the Fairfield Carmax and purchased a "CQC" 2009 Nissan 370Z with 24k miles for $25k with a squeeky clean carfax... Immediately had issues with tire pressure sensor, headlight, body scrapes, misaligned bumper and a bunch of missing clips. I had most of it repaired through the Modesto carmax on 3/25/15 and 4/02/15 with the rocker panel scrape apparently in "CQC" spec... I accepted that as the lady helping me (Shauna) was very kind...

I began to play with the idea of getting a bigger car. recently and went to the Modesto Carmax to get an appraisal and was given a $17k appraisal on 11/1/15. I wasn't interested after all. But a SUV on the lot caught my attention and after some research a new one only runs $1k more. So I went to Livermore Toyota yesterday on 11/3/15 and to my dismay, when they ran the Carfax on the 370Z a accident was reported as taking place on 10/8/2009 but Carfax says at the bottom they began reporting it 10/20/2015... 8 months after I bought the car. It explains why paint has began to peel on the bumper and its missing a Vin sticker. Then the techs at the Toyota took the car in and put it on a lift and found Frame damage... I have an appointment at 3PM to get it inspected by a body shop and intend on going to carmax to speak with a manager before I start seeking an attorney and filing complaints with the DMV, BBB and dealership inspector for the area.

I Dont feel safe driving this already small car that I'm still paying for and I feel deceived that I was lead to believe it was a perfectly safe car with the 125+ point inspection and spotless Carfax. This was our 3rd carmax car and wasn't going to be our last...

I was asked to give my contact info its (***)***-****

They replied

Hi Alan, thank you for this additional information. I work alongside Curt in our Customer Relations team, and as Curt mentioned, we are eager to look into this situation for you. We will be doing some further research and partnership with our store management team, and as soon as we have some more information about next steps we will reach back out to you. Thank you again for the opportunity to look into this. - Jen

And later

Hey Alan, I have notified our management team in Modesto of this and will continue to connect with them to see how we can look into this. If I receive any updates, I will certainly reach back out to you. - Curt

-At this point I've made an appointment for a visual inspection with Cooks collision repair in Tracy at 3PM
-- 2:40PM I get a call from "Francis" at Carmax who is the service department manager and asks me to bring the car in so they can check it for frame damage... I agree, I will after I get this place to check out.

- Cooks finds no frame damage fortunately but points out that there's clear indications of a left front hit... Bumper cover is aftermarket, fender has been repaired and repainted, Hood has been replaced, headlight wasn't OEM, bumper reinforcement bar was cracked on the right side and the bumper foam was held together with tape.

- I take it to carmax and bring my mother as a witness and to be the voice of reason as I'm very calm and emotionless.
-- They put it on a lift and the mechanic with the manager watching explains to me what they're looking for, starting at the rear... He reaches behind the bumper cover and says "we check the bumper support bar for any visible signs of dents or cracks" where I pointed out the front is cracked... He shoots over to the front and unbolts the splash guard and I point to the crack... They mumble to each other and he keeps going along with the inspection and finds nothing out of the ordinary.

Our conversation went back and fourth, They kept quoting their guarantee is for frame or flood damage. While I point out that they did a "125+ point inspection" which checks for these kind of things, That the guy who did the "125+ point inspection" over looked the paint peeling off the bumper, missing vin sticker, missing brackets I had to get them to replace, the over spray and dust in the paint on the hood and fender, the non OEM headlight and bumper cover and the cracked support beam... He offered to replace the bumper support but nothing else.

My mom started off pissed, then we traded and I got pissed and loud for the first time in my life... They offered nothing to do about the now tarnished carfax or an explanation how they overlooked the clear signs of damage and he incriminated himself by saying that they bought a Porsche Boxster from auction that passed everything they do with flying colors only for a service writer to recognize the car from his last job as having the entire front end including parts of the frame repaired. but they couldn't tell before they had the car on their lot being sold to someone else who got their money back.

As of this time, the guy "Francis" left it at "we'll just fix the bumper support" but offered nothing on the carfax despite me explaining... I was told and showed that I purchased a squeeky clean car and paid full non previous wrecked price for it... I am supposed to get a call from a sales manager tomorrow and I left a message to the people on carmax's facebook

I went and got the car checked out at a body shop, they found signs of previous damage in the fender, bumper and hood and missing parts but also found cracks in the bumper reinforcement support... I bought the car being told it had no prior accident and a clean Carfax while clearly that wasn't the case... The CQC inspector failed to identify the clear signs and I paid full price for a non wrecked car that I believed to have had a clean past with faith in the 125+ point inspection. I'm done with the car and just want the car out of my name with the deposit I put on it to go towards another car, I Dont care if another carmax car or from somewhere else. Im willing to overlook $3k in improvements, critical repairs and maintenance. The car was a lie given by a carmax employee and has left me stranded multiple times in the 13k miles I've had it. The car max employee "Francis" couldn't/didn't offer any resolution, compensation or solution to the problem with the Carfax. As of right now I'm extremely disappointed that this is our 3rd carmax car, that I trusted this company to offer more security than a private seller and whole heartedly regret my decision... I hope a resolution or solution can be met without much further action.

I have been getting messages from my friends on facebooks referring me to their attorneys who cover this sort of thing aswell as a friend who works at the DMV there who told me to file a complaint with their investigation department and the BBB. I'll also send this to the local news outlets if nothing will be done to rectify the problem... I just want the car out of my name and my deposit back at this point, I wasnt going to be heart broken if I had to keep the car until finding out it was in an accident.

 

[DarkDB1]

11/05/15

I have info on 3 lawyers that specialize in this kind of thing.. Auto check which is what carmax uses comes up clean while Carfax shows an accident...

Here's a message I got this morning

Good morning Alan, thanks so much for this update and for keeping us in the loop with the info on the body shop inspection. We were in communication with our management team in Modesto who informed us that they wanted to inspect the vehicle for the frame damage you mentioned as well. I understand that you did speak with our management team on this yesterday. Please let me know any further questions you may have on the resolution as I know our Modesto team was eager to connect further. - Curt

And my response

They looked at it, admitting they could tell it was in a right front impact and that it was obvious I didn't cause the cracks in the bumper reinforcement beam as the front end was still intact except for the missing parts I know about now. The mechanic started off by saying they look for cracks or dents in the bumper reinforcement bar as soon as he got the car on the lift and was showing me what to check for, to where I pointed out the cracks in the front... The guy "Francis" told us about a Porsche Boxster they just sold that had a major front end hit but they couldn't tell because how well the impact was repaired, but that a service tech recognized the car from his previous job, so they had to buy it back although they couldn't tell everything firewall forward was replaced... Since my cars accident took place 6 years ago with less than 8k miles I wouldn't be surprised if the right front suspension was all replaced but we wouldn't be able to tell because at 8k miles the undercarriage is still clean... He also said its common to sell previously wrecked cars without knowing of it... But ultimately. All he offered was to replace the bumper reinforcement bar... But that he wasn't part of sales or anything other than the service department so he offered no real resolution to the problem of me buying a car with the lie it had a clean history of no prior accidents.

I said first

They looked at it, admitting they could tell it was in a right front impact and that it was obvious I didn't cause the cracks in the bumper reinforcement beam as the front end was still intact except for the missing parts I know about now. The mechanic started off by saying they look for cracks or dents in the bumper reinforcement bar as soon as he got the car on the lift and was showing me what to check for, to where I pointed out the cracks in the front... The guy "Francis" told us about a Porsche Boxster they just sold that had a major front end hit but they couldn't tell because how well the impact was repaired, but that a service tech recognized the car from his previous job, so they had to buy it back although they couldn't tell everything firewall forward was replaced... Since my cars accident took place 6 years ago with less than 8k miles I wouldn't be surprised if the right front suspension was all replaced but we wouldn't be able to tell because at 8k miles the undercarriage is still clean... He also said its common to sell previously wrecked cars without knowing of it... But ultimately. All he offered was to replace the bumper reinforcement bar... But that he wasn't part of sales or anything other than the service department so he offered no real resolution to the problem of me buying a car with the lie it had a clean history of no prior accidents.

Their response

Hey Alan, I attempted to connect further with the senior management team in Modesto this afternoon to gain some more insight into the situation from the store's perspective. I do not have any specific updates as of yet, but as soon as I'm able to discuss this with the team, I will follow up with you on any info that I'm able to discover. - Curt

I just said thanks and got

You bet Alan, thanks for giving us the chance to look into it and for your patience.

11/06/15

Hey Alan, thanks for reaching back today on your concerns. I was in touch with the team in Modesto on this morning. I know Francis worked with you as well on this, but upon inspection we found a cracked impact bar, which is actually not an indicator of frame damage. While we never want any customer to receive negative information on a vehicle at any time, we cannot guarantee that a vehicle has not been in an accident. It does appear that an accident was listed on the CarFax report in October of 2015, however we stand by our guarantee of no frame or flood damage. With that said, we still want to ensure your satisfaction and will gladly cover any cost associated with the parts of the impact bar in question. We would also be happy to connect with a body shop of your choice to look into those repairs if you wish. Regarding your appraisal offer you mentioned, the accident listed on the CarFax did not influence the amount we delivered on your offer, but rather there were several other factors which contributed to the amount we presented. If I can assist with any other questions or concerns, please feel free to let me know. – Curt, Your Customer Care Team

I responded with

So its okay I was told specifically at time of buying a car for $28k that it had never been in an accident, and it later having been in one. That I have to take the depreciated value now because your 125+ point inspection failed to see all the signs?. That makes the inspection pointless and a bold face lie and buying from you guys a gamble like any private party... If the inspection was done correctly it would of been caught. It took a body shop and your techs no more than 10 minutes to see it was wrecked, but your sales staff told me it wasn't when I bought the car.

I sent links to here and yelp and

i was hoping I could end the ongoing story with "a mistake was made, but they owned up to it and made it right"

And just got

Alan, upon completing my research on the vehicle, we completed a certified quality inspection prior to the sale, which guarantees that there was no frame or flood damage. We stand by that guarantee and want to ensure that your concerns here are addressed. That is why we offered to cover the parts associated with the repair. Additionally, we feel the offer made is the most competitive available on the vehicle, and none of the CarFax information you mention was factored into that offer. We appreciate you giving us the chance to look into it and if either myself or our Modesto team can serve any further assistance, please feel free to let us know. - Curt

My responses

If a cracked support is CQC quality and all the receipts I have for the missing chunk in the headlight and bumper brackets that I was told by Shauna there wasn't in "CQC spec" and was later repaired by carmax (still have receipt) was in spec at time of inspection then it is obvious it was not done properly and a lot of things were over looked. There's still the fact I was lead to believing by the sales lady at the Fairfield carmax that the car had no previous accidents... If I would of known of it I wouldn't be paying $28k for the car that to anywhere else now is worthless.

And those "factored" appraisal issues... Francis said the guy who did the appraisal mentioned something with the RPM. I didn't touch anything but wheel spacers (comes right off) and short shifter... The short shifter does nothing to the RPMs. He's talking about the S-Mode (synchro rev match) that all sports packaged 370Z's have... It blips the RPMs to the right number every time you down shift so its smooth and precise shifting. Its factory and has a button to turn it off...

They said

I can certainly understand that frustration and your hesitation with that, Alan. That is precisely why we want to take the opportunity to address the repairs and complete the service so that we can prove that we stand by our vehicles. - Curt

I said

That doesn't fix the Carfax and that your staff lied to me when I bought the car.

They said

We take great pride in being completely transparent to our customers with all the information we possess on the vehicle. We did that with the AutoCheck report and guarantee the no frame or flood damage like I mentioned. I cannot speak to what may or may not have been present on the CarFax, but I feel great about the efforts our Modesto team made to address this situation properly in recognizing and trying to resolve your concerns. - Curt

I said

I can tell we won't see eye to eye on this and I'm not giving up so easily. Have a good day.

they said

Thanks, Alan, I hope you do the same. I'm disappointed that we weren't able to bring you the resolution you hoped for. Hope that you have a nice weekend. - Curt

I've reached out to Fox40 news and sent a transcript of events to a few attorneys that were referred to me...

One of which having a neat little video.

http://gwpconnectvideos.com/?rid=73&uid=664

11/10/15

As an update... I began trolling their facebook, posting a link to a craigslist post I made about carmax. The guy who was talking to me "Curt" started responding and just kept repeating all I've heard already while completely ignoring many other things that I was saying. I think they have a script that they have to follow.

I chose an attorney and he's going to do his research on carmax with everything I showed and told him is going on on wednesday... I took the pre-licensing classes to get a car dealers license but never went through with it, So I have all the laws in a notebook that dealers have to follow.

I found 2 laws they broke since "CQC" (Carmax Quality Certified) means it's a certified used car... I'm going to continue trolling carmax until they either give in or my attorney says to stop, So far he hasn't acknowledged it because I'm getting results.

I called corporate and they told me as long as the autocheck says it's clear they are not obligated to disclose the car has been in a previous accident (if they were able to tell in the inspection) and I can't get the facebook "Curt" to acknowledge it... It's true for most states, but not California on a certified pre-owned car.

The fight still carries on, I'm thinking about making a huge banner and hanging it on the side of my car and parking it in front carmax saying something like "carmax sells wrecked cars".

11/11/15

To cover my bases, I found another attorney who has experience suing carmax

CarMax May Have Illegally Sold You a Car - Auto Fraud Legal Center

I sent a message tuesday to the website with a run down of everything going on... He called in about 20 minutes and shot an email to everyone in his law office saying pretty much "I got this" (I got a copy of the email)... He asked for a bunch of specific paperwork and the message conversation I've had with carmax which was actually a pretty good thing to do because I found the paper that says "VEHICLE SOLD AS IS or WARRANTY"... It wasn't sold "as is" it had their free 30 day warranty. I can prove my car had this pre-existing damage well before that 30 day warranty by the rock chips and age of the peeling paint on the bumper cover along with the receipt I had the bumper alignment fixed before that 30 day period at carmax.

I guess there's some lawyer convention going on in texas because both lawyers I talked to left to Dallas on wednesday.

I still harass them on facebook, but their facebook is really slow... I've noticed a trend with the way they talk, they all say the same thing word for word so I'm sure they have a script they have to follow... I've requested to see a general manager or someone of equal or higher rank in person to try to avoid the script so far on deaf ears.

I really really don't wan't to have to go through a lawyer to get them to make things right, So I keep trying to reach out but if it continues this way, I apparently have a lawyer that got excited when he heard my details and who was involved... From what it sounds like, They might be paying up between $37K-$40K if I win and if I lose, I lose a few hundred... It's a bet I'm willing to take if I have to.

11/12/15


So... I showed them the post count on the370z.com (2000 at the time), Tagged autoblog and jalopnik in the post then also posted the emails I got from the attorney with the retainer letter being mailed to me and that I'll get contacted by a "Consumer advocate" who has written about carmax's illegal practices before. This caught their attention...

Got called earlier and I recorded it (and told the guy it was being recorded)... The tune is now "how can we make it right?" rather than "this is all we'll do". He sounded pessimistic saying that it'll be against their policy to buy the car back but he's going to contact the higher ups at the carmax.

The retainer will arrive tomorrow or saturday, Once I sign it there will be no more negotiations without cost to them (assuming i win)... It's a no cost to me lawyer if I lose, If I win they take 10% of the excess I get. I'm suing for $32K the car has $16K remaining on the loan so they'll deduct $1600 and the rest will come out of carmax's dime.

On the phone he tried to argue that I modified the car... I have every receipt for everything I did to the car. Down to a license plate frame... So I listed off every thing that's not maintenance or repairs. TWM short shifter, LED bulbs, License plate frames, OEM floormats, Red push button, GTR lenses, TWM shift knob, wheel spacers... Really nothing that can't be undone seeing as how I never had the OEM shift knob (it came with an autozone special 3 allen wrench bolt thing shift knob that fit like poo).

Then that I put 14K miles on the car, I told him I wouldn't have done it if they did their inspection and informed me it was wrecked. I wouldn't have bought the car...

We will see what happens in the next few days.

11/13/15

They're standing by the original offer of fixing the bumper support or trade in my car.

 

[MiketheDyke]

Damn man, I'm sorry to hear all that. I'm super cautious to buying cars. Do you by chance still have the 60 day carfax reports? If you do, would you mind running just one VIN for me? I used autocheck and it came up as clean with 0 accidents, but I went online and it said that carfax and autocheck sometime differ, so I'm curious to see what carfax would say. I'm buying the car tomorrow so I really would like to know the condition of it.

 

[DarkDB1]

I still have carfax, what's the vin?

 

[MiketheDyke]

It's alright. I don't have a ride to look at the car so I might not get it now. I appreciate it though.

 

[Aussie]

Good to know, I've thought about getting cars from them in the past because of their "guarantee." I would definitely not factor that into the sale after hearing this story.

 

[Samurai_Blue]

wow that sucks. I got my 4runner from carmax and havent had an issue with it.

 

[phatintegra]

Here is a story with a friend of mine. I went with him to Carmax years back. He purchase a Lexus From them. I was against it because I was hearing A weird noise from the motor and vibration. I made him take it to Lexus to have it checked out. That he did and Lexus told him the oil never been changed once. They found dryed up oil that form to little pebbles. He took it back and trade it in for a Del So.

 

[LsTeg97]

Good job man....that takes a lot of time and patience and I'm glad your strong into holding your ground. I know most people would have given up due to the amount of work and time it took to get you where you are.

 

[SoundEfx]

Damn pimp, that's messed up.

But keep up the good fight because I love it when companies mess with the wrong person believing that they can't afford to fight back.

 

[Aussie]

wow that sucks. I got my 4runner from carmax and havent had an issue with it.

I'd say it's a hit or miss like any dealer. Just that Carfax advertises their "guarantee" so much that you believe you won't get screwed.

 

[Samurai_Blue]

I'd say it's a hit or miss like any dealer. Just that Carfax advertises their "guarantee" so much that you believe you won't get screwed.

yeah I actually suspected my car was hit for a long time because it was repainted (also thought carmax also resprayed the cars. Because my integra was a carmax car previously and had spray). Guess my car had been in an accident as noted on carfax. But i cant find any bondo, and no structural damage was noted. I think it was the rear bumper since it sags slightly on one corner.

But yeah, its hit and miss. I was actually suprised when i wasnt given a carfax when i got the truck. I thought it was CA law to present a carfax. But this truck was really liked by its owner, it only sat on the lot for a few months before i got it shipped to me.